Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

It's stating my opinion based on the facts and your own words. "McCarthyism" is the standard epithet hurled by the far left when they get uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Again, this is more standard Ford and Harrison stuff. Disqualify the speaker by distorting what they say. Use terms like "company spy club" and insert those words into the mouths of those you can't refute. Standard stuff Oberon.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

The actual article has been posted here many times Oberon. The quotes from Moak are from the article. Moak hasn't refuted one of them. That's because he meant every word.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Nonsense Oberon. You're very plugged in and have ALPA experience from years before Delta. Stop the "aw shucks I'm just a new guy" game.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

Almost every word of your posts are for this purpose Oberon. There's no other inference that could be drawn.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler

FAR 117 was and is a huge backward step for safety and has produced more fatigue.

Originally Posted by Timbo

That's only because you haven't been around here long enough.

Stand by and listen to your Reps, you'll hear all about how AA was 'parked' by the NMB because they asked for too much, and we can't do jack diddley when it comes to a job action, etc...

The real question should be, why do we ALLOW the NMB to dictate to US, what THEY think is "Reasonable"?

Why isn't ALPA National attacking the Railway Labor Act?

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

We have an outgoing union President who totally changed the organization and operating structure of the staff in Herndon. It was refocused solely on support of pilots negotiating wages and defending their contract. He energized the staff and changed the work dynamic in a very positive way.

He looked out years into the future to define the threats that would leave you jobless in 10 years, well after Lee and I both retired. He has organized a combined attack on these threats to your job and to all future airline jobs. He has worked through a challenging negotiating environment that ended up with industry average wages rising 30+% during his tenure. He has increased the credibility and reach of ALPA throughout the government and the investment community. He has helped energize the airlines to work together with the union to protect our industry from a bunch of short term sellouts who will flush you down the toilet for one additional dollar.

Maybe I will add the FAR 117 process that was threatened to be hijacked by some who only care about money and not safety. Let's not forget the minimum pilot requirements for an airline job, another process that was primed to get hijacked by dollar signs and not safety. And for both, I am talking about what really happened not some stupid fairy tale concocted by the DPA crowd and their ilk. Both of these were incredibly complex, detailed negotiations that brought together a variety of players, many of whom have no interest in aviation safety.

I will just forget that before he became ALPA President he completely changed the paradigm of mergers and their effects on pilots. A change that is paying dividends to this day.

So yeah, he really didn't accomplish anything because some dolt wrote a stupid magazine article, that made no sense at all, and now the webboard crowd has yet one other side issue to carp about.

I am sorry, but he has changed this union more in the last 4 years than it has in the other 22 I have been a member. If serious people can't recognize that then heaven help us. We will be relegated to the blowhard, do nothing crowd that the Heidi people represent. At some point, you have to make a choice; do you want someone to hold your hand, pat your head and tell you how bad your life is or do you want someone to actually make your life better. Those are the stark choices we face today. Rhetoric over results or results over rhetoric.

Originally Posted by DALMD88FO

I will add on one more about the survey and sick leave. There were questions about what if we had a sick bank that was paid out each year if it's not used or something to that effect. I wrote that this would be a huge mistake. Just like the flight attendants with their PPT, which can be used as sick time, it will never be used. You will have guys/gals on their deathbeds crawling into the cockpit so that they get the max payout amount. I had a system like this at a 121 supplemental airline while on furlough. You would get a quaterly bonus if you didn't call in sick and an annual additional bonus if you made it a year. I know that a lot of you will say "We know if we are too sick to fly", however I've seen to the contrary. Even under the current system at Delta.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

The PUB events are the essence of bottom up governing. Find out what the pilots are thinking and make sure they have the same knowledge base as the union leaders. They are not PR events.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

It is funny that you posted those pictures, how many of those did you attend? I was at all three. The woman and kids in those pictures are Buzz Hazzard's wife and children, one of the Moak minions in your eyes no doubt. They all flew down to Atlanta to attend the picketing and so did I. If you look carefully through those pictures you will find them populated by the very people you attack so mindlessly. So please spare me your sanctimonious crap. Times change and we live in different times which require different tactics. Adapt or die. You seem to want to live back in another era. Move along, it's time to grow up now and act like an adult.

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

That magazine article was not worth a warm bucket of spit and if you can't realize that then your negotiations strategy is equally worthless. I am sorry but the results of the people who think like you have been disastrous. And yet you cling to those tactics like some football coach trying to run a single wing offense. It is absolutely incredible that people like you can't seem to change.

Originally Posted by Oberon

By "job action" are you referring to something other than self help as allowed by the RLA? If you are you should familiarize yourself with recent job actions outside of the process. Companies don't capitulate anymore they sue and they win. The track record is clear on that.

We are still allowed to strike, unfortunately only after being released by the NMB. Those are the rules currently in place. You can play by them or take your chances but they aren't changing soon under the current national political environment.

Originally Posted by Oberon

By "job action" are you referring to something other than self help as allowed by the RLA? If you are you should familiarize yourself with recent job actions outside of the process. Companies don't capitulate anymore they sue and they win. The track record is clear on that.

We are still allowed to strike, unfortunately only after being released by the NMB. Those are the rules currently in place. You can play by them or take your chances but they aren't changing soon under the current national political environment.

Originally Posted by Timbo

So...Why is he stepping down?

Where's he going next?

Consulting or Lobbyist?

Originally Posted by Timbo

That chart covers 9 years, and while the far right number, 53%, looks good, when you remember that it's based on a 42% reduced pay rate to begin with, and it is only about 50% of what we GAVE UP, to SAVE DELTA, it is incredibly LAME, given the Billions we have earned for Delta!

That number should be 100%! We should have been Fully Restored by now!

Originally Posted by alfaromeo

Great, and all the people that followed your advice came up with zeroes until they started to change to the new times. In short, you would rather be 53% behind where we are but cling to your rhetoric. I prefer cash.