Details on Delta TA
09-25-2014 | 05:35 AM
#2261
Works Every Weekend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 3,506
Likes: 0
From: 737 ATL
So please spare me your sanctimonious crap. Times change and we live in different times which require different tactics. Adapt or die. You seem to want to live back in another era. Move along, it's time to grow up now and act like an adult.
That magazine article was not worth a warm bucket of spit and if you can't realize that then your negotiations strategy is equally worthless.
Numbers don't lie.
That magazine article was not worth a warm bucket of spit and if you can't realize that then your negotiations strategy is equally worthless.
Numbers don't lie.
I think Moakism and constructive engagement worked OK to get us through bankruptcy and the merger. I also think that since then, management has taken advantage of it and has been playing Moak and his supporters for patsies.
DALPA is now Richard Anderson's poodle. So much so that he feels free to boast of it publicly. It is astonishing that he can tell investors that labor risk has been eliminated at Delta Air Lines and the union doesn't make a peep.
If that's your idea of adapting to the new era of labor relations then your naivete knows no bounds.
The various LOAs we've signed since the merger have been completely one-sided.
And then Contract 2012 was the final straw. We were manipulated by management and the Moak people into signing a fast deal with all those concessions and only COLA raises because Anderson knew the enormous profits that were coming. He didn't need a fast deal because of some "fleeting opportunity" about RJs. He and ALPA needed it because they knew in another six months the pilot group would never have accepted a concessionary deal with cuts to profit sharing and increases to productivity, etc. etc. Not while the cash was flowing in torrents.
We were had.
Moak's methods no longer work. It is time we got up off our knees and told the whole story. The Moakists are being "constructive" while management is eating our lunch.
A huge portion of these record profits are OUR MONEY! Our pensions and our paychecks have been transferred to the corporation. Its time to get some of that back.
09-25-2014 | 05:36 AM
#2262
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
I tend to agree with this line of thinking, but I wonder how my former North colleagues feel about the system they had prior to the merger. Did that system provide any "encouragement" to preserve sick hours for some catastrophic event later in life, and thus incentivize some pilots to fly sick?
Carl
09-25-2014 | 05:39 AM
#2263
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
I don't have the same abilities as you to produce slick graphs and tables, but here's the bottom line for me :
I think Moakism and constructive engagement worked OK to get us through bankruptcy and the merger. I also think that since then, management has taken advantage of it and has been playing Moak and his supporters for patsies.
DALPA is now Richard Anderson's poodle. So much so that he feels free to boast of it publicly. It is astonishing that he can tell investors that labor risk has been eliminated at Delta Air Lines and the union doesn't make a peep.
If that's your idea of adapting to the new era of labor relations then your naivete knows no bounds.
The various LOAs we've signed since the merger have been completely one-sided.
And then Contract 2012 was the final straw. We were manipulated by management and the Moak people into signing a fast deal with all those concessions and only COLA raises because Anderson knew the enormous profits that were coming. He didn't need a fast deal because of some "fleeting opportunity" about RJs. He and ALPA needed it because they knew in another six months the pilot group would never have accepted a concessionary deal with cuts to profit sharing and increases to productivity, etc. etc. Not while the cash was flowing in torrents.
We were had.
Moak's methods no longer work. It is time we got up off our knees and told the whole story. The Moakists are being "constructive" while management is eating our lunch.
A huge portion of these record profits are OUR MONEY! Our pensions and our paychecks have been transferred to the corporation. Its time to get some of that back.
I think Moakism and constructive engagement worked OK to get us through bankruptcy and the merger. I also think that since then, management has taken advantage of it and has been playing Moak and his supporters for patsies.
DALPA is now Richard Anderson's poodle. So much so that he feels free to boast of it publicly. It is astonishing that he can tell investors that labor risk has been eliminated at Delta Air Lines and the union doesn't make a peep.
If that's your idea of adapting to the new era of labor relations then your naivete knows no bounds.
The various LOAs we've signed since the merger have been completely one-sided.
And then Contract 2012 was the final straw. We were manipulated by management and the Moak people into signing a fast deal with all those concessions and only COLA raises because Anderson knew the enormous profits that were coming. He didn't need a fast deal because of some "fleeting opportunity" about RJs. He and ALPA needed it because they knew in another six months the pilot group would never have accepted a concessionary deal with cuts to profit sharing and increases to productivity, etc. etc. Not while the cash was flowing in torrents.
We were had.
Moak's methods no longer work. It is time we got up off our knees and told the whole story. The Moakists are being "constructive" while management is eating our lunch.
A huge portion of these record profits are OUR MONEY! Our pensions and our paychecks have been transferred to the corporation. Its time to get some of that back.
Carl
09-25-2014 | 05:43 AM
#2264
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,583
Likes: 326
09-25-2014 | 05:45 AM
#2265
Wind the clock beoch
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 437
Likes: 0
You're saying he took one for the team. Lee "sacrificed" himself for the greater good and made nearly $1.3m in compensation in 2012 alone! Thanks Lee!
Duty, honor, ALPA.
Even coming from you sailing this is ludicrous. But at least you're making progress, not a single grammar or spelling mistake. That's quite an accomplishment. Congrats!
09-25-2014 | 05:47 AM
#2266
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 0
Fact Check Time
Correct, but I think that 5% may be a pretty big if. No idea for sure, though, and any manning savings generated by pay banding (should the pilot group want to go down that road) could readily be offset by increases to vacation, ADG, etc.
It was, but not nearly as big as giving up the cap.
I assume you mean pay hours, not block hours?
The only effect that allowing vacation to be pay, no credit has on manning is that it reduces reserve and/or GS flying, which reduces required staffing in future months. It does affect manning, but that effect is by no means huge.
Not at all. The more that reserves fly, the more pilots are required under the staffing formula. It does, however, have the potential to reduce GS/IA flying.
Same here as with vacation being pay, no credit.
It was, but not nearly as big as giving up the cap.
The only effect that allowing vacation to be pay, no credit has on manning is that it reduces reserve and/or GS flying, which reduces required staffing in future months. It does affect manning, but that effect is by no means huge.
Not at all. The more that reserves fly, the more pilots are required under the staffing formula. It does, however, have the potential to reduce GS/IA flying.
Same here as with vacation being pay, no credit.
09-25-2014 | 05:50 AM
#2268
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
So we're clear, you have looked at the facts and come to the conclusion that I am acting on behalf of Ford & Harrison when I post? If not Ford & Harrison, who exactly?
You tell me what nomenclature you want to use and I'll use it. When we figure that out maybe you'll answer my question. What changed? I was not part of the group you are referring to, I disagreed with you, now I'm part of the group you are referring to.
Disagree with Carl, "you are a member of a group who wants to minimize pilot cost".
Defend yourself, "that's exactly what a member of a group who wants to minimize pilot cost would say".
Except that you haven't posted a quote from the article. You've said "Moak stated" and then paraphrased what the author said Moak was doing. There is a difference between a quote and what the author of the article wrote.
I believe you know the difference between a quote and what the author wrote but are choosing to ignore it because it doesn't fit your editorial.
Am I plugged in to ALPA or Ford & Harrison? Are they working together?
I worked on the PBS committee at Compass. It's a non-political committee. I was barely plugged into the goings-on at Compass. I'm sad to say the majority of my Delta political knowledge comes from APC.
What about the words in my posts that aren't for the purpose of minimizing pilot cost? Is that just cover for my true identity as a member of the group who wants to minimize cost (you need to let me know what you want to call this group soon, DALPA operative or company spy is a lot easier to type).
You tell me what nomenclature you want to use and I'll use it. When we figure that out maybe you'll answer my question. What changed? I was not part of the group you are referring to, I disagreed with you, now I'm part of the group you are referring to.
Disagree with Carl, "you are a member of a group who wants to minimize pilot cost".
Defend yourself, "that's exactly what a member of a group who wants to minimize pilot cost would say".
Except that you haven't posted a quote from the article. You've said "Moak stated" and then paraphrased what the author said Moak was doing. There is a difference between a quote and what the author of the article wrote.
I believe you know the difference between a quote and what the author wrote but are choosing to ignore it because it doesn't fit your editorial.
Am I plugged in to ALPA or Ford & Harrison? Are they working together?
I worked on the PBS committee at Compass. It's a non-political committee. I was barely plugged into the goings-on at Compass. I'm sad to say the majority of my Delta political knowledge comes from APC.
What about the words in my posts that aren't for the purpose of minimizing pilot cost? Is that just cover for my true identity as a member of the group who wants to minimize cost (you need to let me know what you want to call this group soon, DALPA operative or company spy is a lot easier to type).
Hope this helps.
Carl
09-25-2014 | 05:56 AM
#2269
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,299
Likes: 0
I have to say that this can only serve to reduce long-term fatigue.
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