Details on Delta TA
04-03-2015, 07:53 AM
#3431
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 147
Quit being silly Carl. The NMB does not believe in perpetual motion anymore than I do. You believe in it, and that is your prerogative. The world of business and finance disagree with you. What else can I say? How do you think things like insurance annuities are valued? If we go by your reasoning, they can't be valued because the future is unknowable. LOL!
Where were you educated? Dude, c'mon.
You likely know somebody in management in one company or another, or perhaps someone who has a business degree in finance. Why don't you run your thesis on costing of profit sharing by them and get their take. Using your imagination to put yourself in the shoes of a business owner might work if you give it a try.
Where were you educated? Dude, c'mon.
You likely know somebody in management in one company or another, or perhaps someone who has a business degree in finance. Why don't you run your thesis on costing of profit sharing by them and get their take. Using your imagination to put yourself in the shoes of a business owner might work if you give it a try.
04-03-2015, 07:55 AM
#3433
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
You likely know somebody in management in one company or another, or perhaps someone who has a business degree in finance. Why don't you run your thesis on costing of profit sharing by them and get their take. Using your imagination to put yourself in the shoes of a business owner might work if you give it a try.
04-03-2015, 08:03 AM
#3434
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 429
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
They can make all the estimates they wish, but it won't be counted by the NMB in this Section 6 process. It can't be counted because the foundation of profit sharing is future profits...which are unknowable.
Not with the NMB they won't. If it gets rolled into the overall pie, it will be because our union agrees to this concession that would never be tolerated by the NMB's costing analysis.
Completely incorrect. Pay rates and profit sharing are only connected historically. They cannot be proportional in any way when negotiating a Section 6 contract because Section 6 deals with negotiating future items.
Nobody is calling profit sharing a free lunch. Profit sharing simply has no quantifying capability in Section 6.
Carl
Not with the NMB they won't. If it gets rolled into the overall pie, it will be because our union agrees to this concession that would never be tolerated by the NMB's costing analysis.
Completely incorrect. Pay rates and profit sharing are only connected historically. They cannot be proportional in any way when negotiating a Section 6 contract because Section 6 deals with negotiating future items.
Nobody is calling profit sharing a free lunch. Profit sharing simply has no quantifying capability in Section 6.
Carl
04-03-2015, 08:05 AM
#3435
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: 7ER Costar
Posts: 406
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
Correct. I personally find nothing he has to say remotely interesting. It's nothing but the same blather he has been spewing for years.
04-03-2015, 08:10 AM
#3436
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by RetiredFTS
Not defending either side here (leave PS alone), but how do you know of Carl's blather for years when your profile shows you've been on here for only 4 months?
04-03-2015, 08:11 AM
#3437
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
I don't view any distinction between PS and other fixed rates of compensation, other than the risk element.
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Management has a total cost figure in mind that they will draw the line at when costing our contract. We intuitively understand that and I refer to it as the pie.
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
How we allocate the slices is to be determined by the negotiating committee and the MEC. PS is merely a slice of the pie.
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
My view on pay rates is grounded by what is possible. What is possible is grounded in what is responsible. Specifically, what is responsible management from the board's and shareholders perspective. That ultimately will determine the size of the pie. So I like to start with what is rational, but likely pushing the envelope. That sets my upper bound. My lower bound will be established by industry standard plus a dollar, which is pushing the envelope in the other direction. I expect something in between those bounds.
Carl
04-03-2015, 08:24 AM
#3439
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Quit being silly Carl. The NMB does not believe in perpetual motion anymore than I do. You believe in it, and that is your prerogative. The world of business and finance disagree with you. What else can I say?
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
How do you think things like insurance annuities are valued? If we go by your reasoning, they can't be valued because the future is unknowable. LOL!
Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Where were you educated? Dude, c'mon.
You likely know somebody in management in one company or another, or perhaps someone who has a business degree in finance. Why don't you run your thesis on costing of profit sharing by them and get their take. Using your imagination to put yourself in the shoes of a business owner might work if you give it a try.
You likely know somebody in management in one company or another, or perhaps someone who has a business degree in finance. Why don't you run your thesis on costing of profit sharing by them and get their take. Using your imagination to put yourself in the shoes of a business owner might work if you give it a try.
Carl
04-03-2015, 08:28 AM
#3440
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Insurance companies value their annuities based on long bond yields at the time of purchase, plus other factors such as life expectancy based on risk factors. All of these are known quantities at the time the insurance company sells the annuity. But again, this topic has nothing to do with costing out future profit sharing in Section 6 negotiations.
Carl
Carl
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