Details on Delta TA
#3331
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Talk to your reps.
I went to the Atlanta lounge visit before direction was given to the NC and told the DALPA guys that improved rigs were my number one priority. They told me straight up they don't hear this from many pilots.
My opinion: Delta guys are more focused on rates than rigs. We either fly long haul, or think we will soon (which is largely true).
The move to ADG while giving up the duty period rig in the FAR 117 negotiations has resulted in some particularly onerous rotations. Flying at night is part of this job, but the repeated circadian shifts in many of these rotations is eye opening. Ironic that this change occurred as a part of our adaptation to FAR 117.
As far as Herkflyer's comments, it is possible to prevent a company end around work rule improvements. We need more than just one rig (ADG). A min day plus a duty period rig with the contractual requirement to pay the greater of the two.
I went to the Atlanta lounge visit before direction was given to the NC and told the DALPA guys that improved rigs were my number one priority. They told me straight up they don't hear this from many pilots.
My opinion: Delta guys are more focused on rates than rigs. We either fly long haul, or think we will soon (which is largely true).
The move to ADG while giving up the duty period rig in the FAR 117 negotiations has resulted in some particularly onerous rotations. Flying at night is part of this job, but the repeated circadian shifts in many of these rotations is eye opening. Ironic that this change occurred as a part of our adaptation to FAR 117.
As far as Herkflyer's comments, it is possible to prevent a company end around work rule improvements. We need more than just one rig (ADG). A min day plus a duty period rig with the contractual requirement to pay the greater of the two.
No trip will ever pay less than 5.15 per calendar day, and this also applies to reserves--every time. Both were unheard of in the 18+ years I have been here, until our recent 117-related side letter brought this very nice provision to the contract.
But trip rigs are still there. As an example, check out this (edited for clarity and deleting layover hotel info) DTW 330 trip, to see the value of trip rig, especially for longer trips. The trip pays a bit over 75 hours, of which 20 is trip rig!
DTW PILOT 330 *** ROTATION OPER
A### POS-B
DAY FLT T DEPARTS ARRIVES C BLK M/U TURN M EQP
3 D 582 *DTW 1944 LGA 2128
4 418 *JFK 1828 MXP 0845 8.17
7 419 MXP 1055 JFK 1348 * 8.53
8 476 *JFK 2033 BCN 1035 8.02
10 477 BCN 1335 JFK 1622 * 8.47
11 418 *JFK 1838 MXP 0855 8.17
14 419 MXP 1055 JFK 1348 * 8.53
D2312 JFK 1630 DTW 1851 2.21
20.06TRP
REGULAR--75.36TL 51.09BL 24.27CR 0.00MU
RESERVE- 75.36TL 51.09BL 24.27CR 0.00MU
Last edited by Herkflyr; 03-26-2015 at 05:55 AM.
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#3332
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Thanks for the data, Herk!
What I've been seeing is the shoehorning of 4 duty periods into a 3 day trip (that only pays 15:45), 5 duty periods into a 4 day trip, etc. Again, flying one redeye is fine but to have multiple circadian shifts in one rotation is less than ideal to say the least.
It seems to me if our contract had verbiage that a rotation would pay the greater of a 5:15 ADG or 5:15 duty period minimum, it would provide a negative incentive for the company to build these things.
What I've been seeing is the shoehorning of 4 duty periods into a 3 day trip (that only pays 15:45), 5 duty periods into a 4 day trip, etc. Again, flying one redeye is fine but to have multiple circadian shifts in one rotation is less than ideal to say the least.
It seems to me if our contract had verbiage that a rotation would pay the greater of a 5:15 ADG or 5:15 duty period minimum, it would provide a negative incentive for the company to build these things.
#3333
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Joined APC: Jul 2007
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Thanks for the data, Herk!
What I've been seeing is the shoehorning of 4 duty periods into a 3 day trip (that only pays 15:45), 5 duty periods into a 4 day trip, etc. Again, flying one redeye is fine but to have multiple circadian shifts in one rotation is less than ideal to say the least.
It seems to me if our contract had verbiage that a rotation would pay the greater of a 5:15 ADG or 5:15 duty period minimum, it would provide a negative incentive for the company to build these things.
What I've been seeing is the shoehorning of 4 duty periods into a 3 day trip (that only pays 15:45), 5 duty periods into a 4 day trip, etc. Again, flying one redeye is fine but to have multiple circadian shifts in one rotation is less than ideal to say the least.
It seems to me if our contract had verbiage that a rotation would pay the greater of a 5:15 ADG or 5:15 duty period minimum, it would provide a negative incentive for the company to build these things.
All I can say is provide such inputs to your reps, who then direct the negotiators. Chatting on this forum is useful to a point but won't change anything contractually.
#3334
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#3335
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This place is hilarious.
#3336
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I agree, and I think we will. But those that continually spew the woe is me rhetoric need to return to the real world. We'll get a great contract, but it will take 12,000 voices, and when you have some of the insane stuff being passed around in the real world that goes on here, you will never get any kind of consensus. Wanna go on strike? It sure as hell bettered be for the right reason, and not just because you are a little butthurt because XXX airline got XXX and we don't. I'm in though, I have enough right now to pack it in. Wanna say no? Give me a good reason, and I'll join right in.
This place is hilarious.
This place is hilarious.
I'll settle for a very strong contract that improves the quality of my career, and reflects my contribution to the success of the airline. I'll decide whether any hypothetical TA meets the test. Having debates about what other people should expect is futile. I think the only pertinent questions are:
1) Whether the union is properly determining the will of the group
2) Whether any TA that is reached respects the will of the group
3) Whether or not individual pilots will opt to vote for/against any such TA
As far as #1, I'd say the survey was marginally acceptable. I wasn't polled subsequently. The opener, conceptual as it is, doesn't seem to show that the union has gone off the reservation. I'm pleased at what was included, and what wasn't. We'll see.
#3337
#3338
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How much do you think the company puts forth for each pilot who elects to sign up for the most basic of the Delta's Health Care plans? I ask because another Fortune 500 company where I worked provided its employees with a "payback" if you will for not using their health care insurance--just not signing up for it because the employee had coverage from their spouse's job or from a former job, like the military.
I don't use Delta's heath care plan. I have coverage already and on my contract survey suggested our NC ask the company to provide a payback to pilots who don't use the Delta health care plans. Offering health care plans for employees is a huge expense for the company, and those who don't need it are in effect saving the company money. IMO, there should be some payback to those who aren't costing the company in this regard. I did not see anything about this on the contract opener.
I don't use Delta's heath care plan. I have coverage already and on my contract survey suggested our NC ask the company to provide a payback to pilots who don't use the Delta health care plans. Offering health care plans for employees is a huge expense for the company, and those who don't need it are in effect saving the company money. IMO, there should be some payback to those who aren't costing the company in this regard. I did not see anything about this on the contract opener.
#3339
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How much do you think the company puts forth for each pilot who elects to sign up for the most basic of the Delta's Health Care plans? I ask because another Fortune 500 company where I worked provided its employees with a "payback" if you will for not using their health care insurance--just not signing up for it because the employee had coverage from their spouse's job or from a former job, like the military.
I don't use Delta's heath care plan. I have coverage already and on my contract survey suggested our NC ask the company to provide a payback to pilots who don't use the Delta health care plans. Offering health care plans for employees is a huge expense for the company, and those who don't need it are in effect saving the company money. IMO, there should be some payback to those who aren't costing the company in this regard. I did not see anything about this on the contract opener.
I don't use Delta's heath care plan. I have coverage already and on my contract survey suggested our NC ask the company to provide a payback to pilots who don't use the Delta health care plans. Offering health care plans for employees is a huge expense for the company, and those who don't need it are in effect saving the company money. IMO, there should be some payback to those who aren't costing the company in this regard. I did not see anything about this on the contract opener.
My wife worked as a nurse in a hospital and got a 25% bump for this very reason. Wouldn't expect it to be that much at DAL, but I do agree there is a value on this benefit that we are not using!
#3340
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I agree, and I think we will. But those that continually spew the woe is me rhetoric need to return to the real world. We'll get a great contract, but it will take 12,000 voices, and when you have some of the insane stuff being passed around in the real world that goes on here, you will never get any kind of consensus. Wanna go on strike? It sure as hell bettered be for the right reason, and not just because you are a little butthurt because XXX airline got XXX and we don't. I'm in though, I have enough right now to pack it in. Wanna say no? Give me a good reason, and I'll join right in.
This place is hilarious.
This place is hilarious.
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