Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1874526)

My opinion:

1. Complete the survey.
2. Attend every LEC meeting you can.
3. Reading everything ALPA sends us (yes, even the stupid stuff)
4. Call, email, and corner your reps.
5. Ask questions.
6. Participate in "Call to Action" efforts.
7. Volunteer if you can.
8. Praise in public - Criticize in private.
9. Don't take it personally if your priorities don't always match the collective goal.

With the exception of #2, I've been doing all of that since I was a new hire, 29.5 years ago. The only reason I don't make any LEC meetings now is, my base was closed, I have to commute, and unless I fly up the night before, and get a motel, by the time I get there (IF I can even get there) the meetings will be over.

When I lived in my base (BOS) I did attend every LEC meeting I was off for, and I was on the No B Scale Committee. And we got rid of it, but not by "Proactive Appeasement". :rolleyes: In 1996, I was on the Strike Committee. In 2000, I was a Family Awareness guy, in 2004, PBS Committee, and today I'm on the International Flying Committee, and P2P. The pilots I talk to are getting pretty sick of Proactive Appeasement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1874526)

Well said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1874533)

Thanks for making my point!

How much MORE do most of us have to get to consider it acceptable?

2004 rates plus something for inflation, plus something for retirement.

Do you have any information that suggests the next contract will not have MORE? So far all I've heard is that there is some disagreement over how much MORE is acceptable.

3% twice isn't going to cut it this time!

Really?

How should Reserve be handled? Should seniority rule in all cases, or should assignments be spread out equally?

Like with everything else we do, seniority should play a big part. Don't like it? Bid off it. Reserve has gotten so good, senior line holders are bidding it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERflyer (Post 1874506)

Hey, I'm not the one that shut down the BBQ forum but at the time it was much more relevant than this place. But here we are.

Your back pedaling is stunning. Here's how you started this conversation:

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERflyer (Post 1874023)

And everyone also said we'd "never" have profits above $2.5B so all that extra profit sharing would not come to pass.

Now you say you were referring to a now shut down forum called the BBQ forum. You have a credibility problem ace.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERflyer (Post 1874506)

Without the other sections of true value our W-2 is minimum 30% more than before. How's that? Profit sharing and other pay improvements count. We can't cost out profit sharing into the future so it doesn't count? That sounds like BS to me. So let's covert it all to pay rates up to $5B in profits. Would it count then? Let me guess. No?

We get it dude, you've been coached that profit sharing is too risky so we need to monetize it now. Problem is our survey results were unanimous that profit sharing must not be touched. Thus your attempts at convincing us of our error in judgment are...suspicious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERflyer (Post 1874506)

Seems you're the selective one. Vacation pay improvements, reserve pay improvements, training pay improvements, 5+15 per day pay improvement, profit sharing. It ALL counts. It doesn't have to be all pay rate improvements. Everyone else knows they're making 30%+ more no matter how you slice it. (That's why they're so protective of their beloved profit sharing. Giddy in fact.)

Seems my facts are much more complete.

Hate to let the sun shine on your rainy day.

But hey, I'll take another 30% in the next contract. I'll take 40%. And I don't really care how they slice it.

You had no idea the number would be 30% or 19%. But you'd take 19% over 3.5 years even if self funded again. Sad.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1874556)

Your back pedaling is stunning. Here's how you started this conversation:

Now you say you were referring to a now shut down forum called the BBQ forum. You have a credibility problem ace.

We get it dude, you've been coached that profit sharing is too risky so we need to monetize it now. Problem is our survey results were unanimous that profit sharing must not be touched. Thus your attempts at convincing us of our error in judgment are...suspicious.

You had no idea the number would be 30% or 19%. But you'd take 19% over 3.5 years even if self funded again. Sad.

Carl

Carl,

Stop being so paranoid. I'm just a line pilot on my own. I just don't like slanted realities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1873884)

I am curious. Where and who told you that. The only place I ever saw it was here. It was never in any Union material and was not mentioned at the road show I attended.

Two different pilot lounges during the road show. ATL domestic and Seattle. Ask ANYONE there.

But then you know that by now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERflyer (Post 1874023)

And everyone also said we'd "never" have profits above $2.5B so all that extra profit sharing would not come to pass. And now that it has all the naysayers are shouting "Don't touch profit sharing!"

C2012 has returned 30%+ since we signed it but still people like you focus on 3-3 vice the net positives. So if we sign early and we get 10% July 1st did we get a 3% raise this year or 13%? Let me guess: only 3%.

30%+ is wrong. Why not add per diem to your laundry list. Book rates. That is the widely accepted measure. Nice attempt at perfuming the pig.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1874088)

I went to the road show. No fights. Was it a pub night?

Wrong one. Definitely a fight. Believe it was in quaint little PTC.

But then again you know this by now too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1874526)

Ok Karnack. That's quite the utopian wish list from such a misguided preacher of the ALPA has never transgressed nor miscalculated dogma like yourself.

First, what about staying informed AND communicating with other pilots on this web board, chit chat, the lounges, on the line and on layover social excursions over adult beverages? No mention of it. Is all of our information supposed to come from your idyllic 2-4 from above only? Was it the hope that dues paying members would only avail information from 2-4 on your laundry list after the Dalpa forum was shuttered?

Second. Praise in public -Criticize in private. What I might deem and intention as constructive criticism (example: the NC and MEC chairs complete disregard for the policy manual and TA process in 2012) the ALPA acolyte will distort it and frequently perceive it as criticism. So if I am going to criticize ( your words) I need to do that in private????

Really ? Really !

Please. Do explain. This is going to be truly fascinating as well as largely preposterous.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1874466)

Are you saying that the majority of our pilot group should not determine what is acceptable?

Really?

The topic was "support your reps and NC." I was referring to the notion that we should blindly support both groups. I vehemently disagree.

The "majority of our pilot group" has no direct role in the process. Once it goes to the membership it's already a done deal. History says every agreement that goes to the pilot group will pass. Good or bad. You probably consider this validation. It's always the result of a full court sales job and fear campaign that emphasizes the positives and minimizes the negatives, those that are even mentioned.

I expect the next agreement will be no different. History tells us I am right.