Originally Posted by Sink r8

You really want to get into the business of "smoothing out seasonal demands"? Under the guise of making sure we don't furlough? Those are pro-company concessions.

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Doesn't sound like an argument you'd normally make. You're normally looking to place things in the concession side of the ledger, when discussing contracts other people advocate for. In fact, you've got such a finally tuned concession radar, it sometimes picks up things that aren't even there.

Did you turn it off for this?

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Vacation sellbacks are a concession. In my estimation, a huge concession. If you want to argue in their favor, fine. Just don't kid yourself, and don't kid other posters, into thinking they're not concessionary.

Originally Posted by gzsg

Moak is not only not a friend to our profession, he is our enemy.

Originally Posted by DAL 88 Driver

Amazing it's taken this long for some to figure that out.

Originally Posted by NERD

The Moak disciples are being very,very quiet. Probably on overtime FPL coordinating a response.

Originally Posted by Purple Drank

Shiznit, does Lee Moak still speak for you?

Originally Posted by DAWGS

Those who pay attention know. Thanks for holding their feet to the fire. We need more like you and 88.

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Okay, from memory I once heard that the debate between DALPA and NWALPA about 1.5x vs GS systems didn't in the end make a huge difference in total compensation for the pilots. It was about the same. The difference was where the money went, it was presumed 1.5x favored senior pilots, GS pay favored everyone.

As many of us know, GS doesn't necessarily favor everyone and there a lot of junior pilots flying a lot of hours per month who would love 1.5x but at the same time GS are fun when they're around.

But more importantly, I'm not sure any of that calculation accounted for the WS Mafia- which requires high seniority to pull off.

I think that's why just maybe we take another look at something that accounts for all of the above.

So would 1.5x/2x pay system with a cap plus a GS system add more money and respect seniority but temper the WS Mafia thus requiring more staffing? I.e. help us become more overpaid, under worked and oversexed?

75-80 hours 1.5x pay on credit hours
80+ 2x pay on credit hours
ALV block cap
GS pay 2x pay and excluded from a cap

Originally Posted by NuGuy

Heyas FtB:

The NWA system was a bit more complicated than 1.5x > 80. There was also a "premium trip" portion that was basically identical to the green slip system. They were basically short notice trips, and paid 1.5x regardless, or if you were already over 80, they paid 2.25x (or the portion over 80).

Now if OT over 80 would make people stampede to the WSs, you're probably right. What people forget about the NWA system was that there were a fairly complex set of caps that went along with it.

Unless you had a high negative bank, or training (which you could take for pay, no credit, full credit and anything in-between at the time of bidding), it was pretty difficult to get more than 5 hours past the "monthly max", which usually floated around 85 hours.

My guess (and it's only a guess) is if you tried to implement a cap system here, people would lose their minds. Even if you jacked the pay rates up to where they were in 2004, plus inflation, people would still complain about a cap.

Nu

Originally Posted by Molon Labe

Yes, I think the poster on that one is obviously very Alaska centric. The test of "Blood and Iron" remains to be seen and will probably take shape over about a six or seven year period. I don't really see any definitive movement in the Seattle, north south west coast, west coast Hawaii, markets for a while. I believe when the "Over fly Narita" aircraft to be ordered in Sept. are being delivered you will then see significant reshaping and bolstering of the Delta hub in Seattle . AND that is when Alaska will find the first TRUE competition in Seattle for it's non Alaska state flying. AND will most likely suffer considerable attrition and loss of markets and market share.

Originally Posted by gloopy

I think we'll see an effect a lot sooner than that. We're already adding a lot of domestic capacity there as well as continuing the slow buildup of international. You're probably right that the big shift won't occur until the point to point situation is fully developed.

But first we have to run an RFP for planes we already have on order.




Wait, what?