Details on Delta TA
06-09-2015 | 04:35 PM
#6861
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
I don't know how this is locking in more mainline flying. These 100-seaters could be growth, but I'd place my bets on them being replacements for MDs, 320s, and maybe even a few 73s. Meanwhile, we allow 25 more aircraft with DAL paint but not DAL pilots.
It's a concession.
It's a concession.
The 25 76 seaters does come with further locking down DCI- not ideal, but small potatoes compared to some of the other stuff in the TA.
The hundred seaters will be used like the 717s and replace RJ flying as well as do longer stage length stuff into markets we may not be in now.
06-09-2015 | 04:36 PM
#6862
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 5,146
Likes: 112
I'm starting to see the genius of this TA. It was never INTENDED to pass. The MEC put an incompetent NC in with the big boys, so management thought they could roll us. That generated a POS TA that really fired up the masses to start paying attention for a change. Next, we put some talented negotiators back in the room and catch management on their heels. Even RA is caught off guard.
Everyone knows the pilots are following round two, and they've learned what they're really worth. A new FEDEX agreement on the street also proves it to them. Wall street starts questioning whether DAL labor risk is REALLY off the table and RA has to prove it is...QUICKLY.
In record time, we have a historic contract. RA accepts the cost of preserving zero labor risk and actually pays it (we're actually pretty cheap compared to massive buy-backs). Wall Street sees a sound investment in Delta pilots who will maximize profits for themselves AND investors and the stock price rises slightly.
Everyone knows the pilots are following round two, and they've learned what they're really worth. A new FEDEX agreement on the street also proves it to them. Wall street starts questioning whether DAL labor risk is REALLY off the table and RA has to prove it is...QUICKLY.
In record time, we have a historic contract. RA accepts the cost of preserving zero labor risk and actually pays it (we're actually pretty cheap compared to massive buy-backs). Wall Street sees a sound investment in Delta pilots who will maximize profits for themselves AND investors and the stock price rises slightly.
06-09-2015 | 04:40 PM
#6863
Widebody
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
From: 777 CAP
Outsider's two cents:
I was hoping you'd take a bigger bite into the old C2000 pay rates, but when comparing pay vs. AA and UA consider that AA's current rates were handed to the pilot groups with them pretty much painted into a corner. The UA contract is pretty much just your current one. Both UA and AA contracts were put together within the fog of merger. Yours will be the first real unified contract.
I was hoping you'd take a bigger bite into the old C2000 pay rates, but when comparing pay vs. AA and UA consider that AA's current rates were handed to the pilot groups with them pretty much painted into a corner. The UA contract is pretty much just your current one. Both UA and AA contracts were put together within the fog of merger. Yours will be the first real unified contract.
06-09-2015 | 04:46 PM
#6865
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 0
From: Power top
Outsider's two cents:
I was hoping you'd take a bigger bite into the old C2000 pay rates, but when comparing pay vs. AA and UA consider that AA's current rates were handed to the pilot groups with them pretty much painted into a corner. The UA contract is pretty much just your current one. Both UA and AA contracts were put together within the fog of merger. Yours will be the first real unified contract.
I was hoping you'd take a bigger bite into the old C2000 pay rates, but when comparing pay vs. AA and UA consider that AA's current rates were handed to the pilot groups with them pretty much painted into a corner. The UA contract is pretty much just your current one. Both UA and AA contracts were put together within the fog of merger. Yours will be the first real unified contract.
06-09-2015 | 04:46 PM
#6866
Line Holder
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 993
Likes: 0
From: VEOP Retired! 7ER A was last position
I guess the is mostly addressed to the P2P guys on here that are trying to explain some complex issues.
First, I appreciate your efforts. I'm not one of they guys who think you're spies or have other agendas and like I said I appreciate your efforts at education.
There are a lot of "old heads" for lack of a better word, who have been on here since the merger contract and SLI discussion. We come and go (I just came off a 6 month break to get my mind right
) and its great to see the old heads perspective.
With that said, since I know your in contact with some of our senior leadership, I need to say the following and please take it back to them.............There are lots of the moderates that don't come on here much anymore that think this contract is a mistake. I point to myself, Denny Crane, shoot even CogF16 who I haven't seen on here in years.
I'll tell ya, we're the swing voters (most of us voted yes last time) you need and trust me........we're underwhelmed!
Food for thought,
Your Uncle Ferd
First, I appreciate your efforts. I'm not one of they guys who think you're spies or have other agendas and like I said I appreciate your efforts at education.
There are a lot of "old heads" for lack of a better word, who have been on here since the merger contract and SLI discussion. We come and go (I just came off a 6 month break to get my mind right
) and its great to see the old heads perspective.With that said, since I know your in contact with some of our senior leadership, I need to say the following and please take it back to them.............There are lots of the moderates that don't come on here much anymore that think this contract is a mistake. I point to myself, Denny Crane, shoot even CogF16 who I haven't seen on here in years.
I'll tell ya, we're the swing voters (most of us voted yes last time) you need and trust me........we're underwhelmed!
Food for thought,
Your Uncle Ferd
. I (mostly)gave up the forums when the DALPA one died. And my life is fuller!!! I came back to APC a few months ago leading up to this POS. I'm a solid NO on this for a multitude of reasons. I emailed my reps before and after the announcement and can't believe the MEC could pass this on to us. If they do, it's our job to blow it up and start over. Status Quo with the PS is fine with me.
Last edited by Cogf16; 06-09-2015 at 05:20 PM.
06-09-2015 | 04:47 PM
#6867
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
The company cannot access the 8500s nor can they disclose it to the FAA. It's only between your dr and the company dr.
06-09-2015 | 04:53 PM
#6868
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 24
Likes: 1
I'm embarrassed to be an ALPA pilot. This TA is a total let down. No way to explain it except in bed with management. There will never be a better negotiating climate and we go backwards and give up things fought for. This rush job is a huge disappointment.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
06-09-2015 | 04:56 PM
#6870
Line Holder
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 96
Likes: 0
From: Captain, SS Orca
I'm thoroughly disgusted with the whole thing, it's an easy no for me, personally, for many of the reasons others have brought up. I just wanted to add this:
In the Contract Overview that the MEC put out today regarding LCA bidding and OE, they have a slide that says -
"American - Company removes 100% of LCA trips"
That is absolutely false. Not how it works at AA. Our system is better than theirs, but this statement is either deliberately misleading or our guys don't know what they are talking about.
Makes me wonder how much of that sort of thing is sprinkled throughout the slides.
In the Contract Overview that the MEC put out today regarding LCA bidding and OE, they have a slide that says -
"American - Company removes 100% of LCA trips"
That is absolutely false. Not how it works at AA. Our system is better than theirs, but this statement is either deliberately misleading or our guys don't know what they are talking about.
Makes me wonder how much of that sort of thing is sprinkled throughout the slides.
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