What exactly is wrong with saying should be paid extra for everything? Unless, of course, you're one of those "cost neutral" enablers.

4833. THat gives you 12% the first year. Then 3% after.

Im guessing, pilots want this again?:confused:

I hope not.

TEN

Agreed. I don't hold much hope for our next contract. Too many guys buy into the devaluation of the profession. The 4th floor guys will have a good laugh if we go for 12% then cost of living with no work rule improvements. 4833 all over again

You mean an FCR?

http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/das_m...4_original.gif

I know the FO FCRs evidently go in the trash. I came out of one of our hotels in Ohio, went two blocks down the wrong street and realized I made a massive mistake. I went back and researched the crime stats from the local police, shocked at what I saw I wrote it up but never heard anything.

I thought they at least read the Captain's FCRs but evidently not, he told me his picture of a drug deal outside of the same hotel was ignored. We still stay there.

Now I just think it's funny.

I was walking out of the ATL crewroom V-file area towards the exit the other day and what do I see,

But a hat sitting on a rollaboard with a big orange T,

So I held my hands up for all to see,

http://static.tvgcdn.net/MediaBin/Ga...conaughey1.jpg

And shouted out Hook Em Horns like it was my dying plea,

Then I thought to myself if it might else be,

A sign for something other than the big orange UT,

Could it just possibly be the hat of good ole T?

Do you have a point? I've read this post multiple times and haven't found one. What does "we should get paid extra for everything" exactly mean? What is "extra?" What is "everything?"

Should reserve pilots get paid more if they sit short call? Should you get paid more if you fly a redeye? What if you are not a "morning person" but have an 0530 report? Do you get paid more for that? What if you prefer flying turnarounds, but you fly a one-day trip that has four legs? Do you get more for that? What if you have an MEL and have to actually read the orange book? Think of the strain that the F/O has to go through to pick it up, being a heavy manual and all! Do you get paid more for that too?

You have a universe of entitlement buried in there, but I am not sure just what you meant or did not mean.

I meant that expecting to get paid "extra" or ("more," if that's easier for you to grasp) for everything we do is what we should expect and demand from "our" "union" on C15.

Not "cost neutral," as RA and Sleepy Ed labeled C12 (thanks to Carl for refreshing us on that gem).

Not "what are you willing to give up for that," which seems to be OK with you, sailing fun, and other expectation managers.

Is ensuring we are compensated in line with the company's financial success your goal? Or would that make you too feel too "entitled?"

I don't want "cost neutral" and I want a lot "more." The original post you quoted however spoke not to the pay scales of the contract overall, but rather the author's observation that some guys felt entitled to more compensation for a specific work rule (in his example short call).

He was a bit amused, considering that the work rule has been significantly improved over the years (in the 8os reserve was perpetual 24/7 short call) and now guys were expecting extra coin for occasionally having to sit SC, when they never got extra before for sitting it full time.

Actually I sort of disagree with him, but I digress.

The hotel example is significantly different from the short call example. There is a cost to Manhattan and other long layovers. The hotels are more expensive and the transportation is as well. Every single long layover location was in effect bargained for in our contract. Each and every layover we move from there to the short location is a monetary savings to the company.

Getting compensated for it to any degree up to penny less than the current cost differential still makes it a win-win for pilots and the company. Plus in some cases helps mitigate potential rest issues by cutting out hours in traffic as well as reducing variables that can effect pairing reliability.

I'm not saying we should get huge hourly pay raises, tighter scope and higher daily vacation credit as a trade for moving a few overnights to the othert side of the line. We should get those things anyway though. But a trade that lets us keep at lease some of the savings to the company off of prior book is both fair and reasonable. In a truly constructive collaborative relationship, something like that wouldn't cause any friction at all.

As for those freeloading long call pilots, we sold back a 7th short call (only in the months when the company may want it anyway) back to help fund 4/8/3/3. Funny thing is, 6 short calls wasn't a number picked out of a hat but more like the statistically safe number the company could do what they were going to do anyway WRT coverage with minimal impact to staffing. They found out later that it did create some pressure in some categories the last part of some months, so they wanted 7 and got it. We also recently got an extra hour added to long call, but gave it right back in order to get rid of something the company was supposedly neutral about in the first place.

And yet there are still people who sleep beneath the blanket of coverage that reserves provide, and then question the manner in which they provide it. :cool:

Worse than that would be 12% partially offset with reduced profit sharing, work rule concessions that eliminate a couple hundred pilot positions, a slap on the wrist for the flagrant bad faith JV violation and some new and improved "large RJ's" (77-160 seat types) at the ACMI Air Group carriers.

We'd never fall for that though.