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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
(Post 1902555)
Okay, several more questions added.
APCF FAQ ABOUT A 2015 I'll be gone all day tomorrow, or at least most of the morning and afternoon. PM me and I'll get the rest of the questions. |
So...that extended range C150...where's crew rest?
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Im voting NO for this thing for many many reasons, but the two that really chap my #%^ are:
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing. 2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders". This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups... |
Long time lurker here. Just got off a trip and trying to make sense of this. It appears to be a complete fail. I am a solid NO. There is zero reason we should have such a poor offer from such a highly profitable company. A company that has been rolling in the dough we lost in bankruptcy. Now they stiff us after giving themselves huge raises and stock options? A complete insult. Who the hell approved to send this out?
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Originally Posted by F15Cricket
(Post 1902538)
I am not too good at math (well, I do fly for Alaska!), but that is only 17 days?!
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Originally Posted by Take Em
(Post 1902590)
Im voting NO for this thing for many many reasons, but the two that really chap my #%^ are:
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing. 2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders". This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups... |
Originally Posted by sailingfun
(Post 1902607)
The profit sharing math is simple. The max percentage of pay reduction is 5.74%. If profits are 2.5 billion or less the cut is zero. It will vary between those numbers depending on profit. Keep in mind that pay raises compound, PS does not.
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Originally Posted by GogglesPisano
(Post 1902574)
If you are even considering voting yes, just remember this.
The elites are laughing at our ineptitude. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/delta-...172136155.html In a Wednesday research note, JPMorgan analyst Jamie Baker called the deal "a welcome revision to the industry's most generous profit sharing program." With this TA we will be 3.5% above American plus still get profit sharing that American does not get. With profit sharing, even after the reset, we will be 18.5% above American based on this year profit. If profits go even higher, to the estimated $10 billion in 2017, we could be 25% above American. Not insignificant. |
Originally Posted by MtEverest
(Post 1902593)
Long time lurker here. Just got off a trip and trying to make sense of this. It appears to be a complete fail. I am a solid NO. There is zero reason we should have such a poor offer from such a highly profitable company. A company that has been rolling in the dough we lost in bankruptcy. Now they stiff us after giving themselves huge raises and stock options? A complete insult. Who the hell approved to send this out?
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Originally Posted by Take Em
(Post 1902590)
Im voting NO for this thing for many many reasons, but the two that really chap my #%^ are:
1) why do we have to sign a contract that dangles aircraft orders in front of us like a scraps of food to a bum? Do we have to now provide concessions each contract in order for the company to provide us with aircraft to fly? Isnt that management's job? Are they that inept to have to rely on us to fund their aircraft purchase orders while the 4th floor in Atalnta is literally, literally printing money right now? How low and shallow do they think we are (apparently pretty low)? The fact that the company is holding these aircraft "hostsge" over our heads is just embarrassing managing. 2) The company has made it very clear that they want a huge huge huge portion of our profit sharing checks returned to the shareholders. my gut tells me that the company really thinks they will be in that $3-5bil range and they don't want to give up their share of the pie they originally agreed to in previous contracts. so if the union really wants to tout this as a 14% pay raise over the next year and half, I see it as a 4% raise when subtracting out the current PS payouts, and when you add in the 3% raise were due this Jan, 1% is the number myself and I know others have come up with. There is NO WAY any of us should ever support all these concessions and our return is a meger 1% raise when the company can't lay out enough money to "shareholders". This TA is an obomination of what it means to negotiate, especially in our current economic environment. ALPA has once again dropped the ball on what was supposed to be "historic moment" and the company has decided to play chicken with the pilot group hoping they can convince enough of us to cave. I am disgusted and ashamed in both groups... About $35,000 - $50,000 more a year.depending on seat and aircraft. |
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