Originally Posted by Bananie (Post 1903812)

My math is that in 2006 I made a little less than $160K or at least the W-2 that I am looking at now says so. Last year more than $250K, still looking straight at the W-2. That's 90,000. TA increases my pay rate another $50/hour, that's $50K. There's my math.

Originally Posted by Bananie (Post 1903818)

Okay, yes, I work for money. What do you get paid in, bananas? I admit that being a capt. I don't get any OE trips so that doesn't affect me, but it doesn't seem too far a reach to expect someone to actually come to work to get paid when they are making 150 to 200k per year. The rest of the agreement is positive. Sick leave, I call in sick once every three or four years so who gives a crap. If you are sick 200 hours a year you probably need to get a doctors note or go to a hospital or something.

Originally Posted by gloopy (Post 1903824)

This will be a very damaging TA regardless of how we vote on it. It we pass it we eat massive concessions all around, including unprecidented foreign alter ego airlines and a lower and further reduceable AF/KLM JV. If we vote against it it will take a strong effort to overcome the baseline it created.

So I propose we gift the company 100 million dollars.

That's right, and I'm not kidding.

If the net value of this TA is supposedly 1.1B over 3 years, and assuming it was properly comprehensively costed out (I don't think it was, but the company and the NC will absolutely stand by that it was) then when we vote it down let's offer 1.0B over 3 years to our current contract and put it in payrates alone. Nothing else. Nothing. Else.

The company couldn't possibly have a problem with that, could they? If the true net cost was 1.1B extra and we're offering them a free 100M (to return to the shareholders! Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!) then they would be a fiduciary obligation for them to accept that.

Assuming this TA was properly costed out all around that is. Which further assumes they would *never* do any of the worst case things that they *could* do IAW this TA, like massive sick harassment on a scale never before seen, foreign alter egos, 75/76's against a new A380 order for our "partners" AF/KLM, etc.

If the true cost of the pros and cons cost 1.1B extra, from our point of view and theirs, give them one hundred million dollars, or donate it to the charity of their choice, and put the 1.0B into pay rates alone and stick with current book.

What possibe problem could they have with that?

Originally Posted by Timbo (Post 1903828)

If you read the list of how the individual MEC members voted for this, there were at least 4 guys who said, "I don't like it but I'll let the pilots decide". If just 2 of those 4 had voted no instead of yes, this thing would have failed, 10-9 against.

As far as I'm concerned, it they actually said that, they should be recalled. As I have said before, they abdicated their responsibility to be the first line of defense.

That right there tells me all I need to know. They didn't like it, and they want YOU to turn it down.

See above

I am not afraid of the NMB and I am not going to sell out all these concessions for a piddly 8% raise. I voted yes to 2012, only because my Capt. Rep told me we would NEVER see those two 3% raises, but we did, and now we get to see two more 3% raises, with very little improvement to our retirement funding! The MEC set a low bar in 2012, and now a 3% raise will be the new normal.

Not going to fall for that again.

Originally Posted by Hank Kingsley (Post 1903842)

. Find me a table let alone a 747 that can hold that. We're getting rid of those, forget it.

Originally Posted by Bananie (Post 1903818)

Okay, yes, I work for money. What do you get paid in, bananas? I admit that being a capt. I don't get any OE trips so that doesn't affect me, but it doesn't seem too far a reach to expect someone to actually come to work to get paid when they are making 150 to 200k per year. The rest of the agreement is positive. Sick leave, I call in sick once every three or four years so who gives a crap. If you are sick 200 hours a year you probably need to get a doctors note or go to a hospital or something.

Originally Posted by Bananie (Post 1903818)

I don't get any OE trips so that doesn't affect me, but it doesn't seem too far a reach to expect someone to actually come to work to get paid when they are making 150 to 200k per year.