Details on Delta TA
06-14-2015 | 07:45 PM
#8873
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 12
From: A320 Left seat
Forgot,
From my ID you will be able to ascertain that I'm not in management and I do not have any position whatsoever in ALPA. That should clarify things quite a bit I imagine. Just a line puke.
So c'mon lets get that cleared up shall we?
Of course you could just say that you are wrong if you want. The beer sounds more fun though. Let's do it.
From my ID you will be able to ascertain that I'm not in management and I do not have any position whatsoever in ALPA. That should clarify things quite a bit I imagine. Just a line puke.
So c'mon lets get that cleared up shall we?
Of course you could just say that you are wrong if you want. The beer sounds more fun though. Let's do it.
06-14-2015 | 08:01 PM
#8874
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 12
From: A320 Left seat
Behind 50 pages in reading. Sorry if this has been already posted.
From a UAL guy and worth reading.
As a UA guy I can tell you that everybody over hear I have talked to cares.
We already have two of the big reasons you should vote NO on this TA in our contract. Both of which we desperately want to get rid of in our next one!!! If you guys can't hold the line, then we are screwed.
We have the 75% of OE need can be blocked from FO bidding and as a 747 FO it absolutely sucks. Choice Flying trips are blocked every month, leaving less flying trips for senior folks to bid on. So, more senior folks are forced into Bunkie (IRO) slots. Increasing the likelyhood that you will get to go back to the training center for landings, YIPEEEEEEEE!!!! Also build less lines, so you need less FOs, forcing folks on to reserve that should hold a line and denying bids to the next folks in line that want to upgrade. That of course cascades down the rest of the seniority list and like the preverbial snowball going down a hill gains size as it goes, you end up with folks on the outside that can't get in. It is a huge give to the company!!!!
The other part that we already have is the relaxed counting for JV/Scope. If you want to know how bad it is, the best example I can give is the LAX to Germany routes. We used to fly a 777 from LAX to FRA, but we don't anymore. Bad route you say, I laugh in your general direction, it is a great route!!!, just ask Lufthansa. They are currently flying an A380 from LAX-FRA, a 747-800 from LAX-FRA and an A340 from LAX-MUC. Thanks to our brilliant JV/Scope that is perfectly legal even though we don't get any metal on the route. A 757-200 counts the same as an A380!!!! You have got to be kidding me!!!!!!
Again, these are two of the sections that we swallowed a horse pill over in our last agreement because we didn't have a joint contract and needed to get one to move our group along as one. Our last agreement was a hold your nose and vote yes, because it wasn't really voting yes on a contract as much as it was voting yes to end the separation of the two pilot groups! There is no way our current contract would pass on its own merits and I think you would hear that pretty consistently from the UA group. The gives that you have in your TA are very painful, anyone who tries to tell you differently is a either a Bold Faced Liar or completely ignorant. Those are the only two choices.
If you vote yes on this and are in the bottom 3/4 of the seniority list, I think you will see that, despite the pay raises, your W-2 earnings will actually be lower than they would have been once the widebody growth stagnation is fully realized! Pay raises with no growth on the top end are worse than no pay raises but real Widebody growth!
We had a huge number of outside compelling reasons to vote for a less than ideal contract 3 years ago. Those are gone for us and I don't see anyway that we would vote for your TA and I don't see any reason that you should either!
From a UAL guy and worth reading.
As a UA guy I can tell you that everybody over hear I have talked to cares.
We already have two of the big reasons you should vote NO on this TA in our contract. Both of which we desperately want to get rid of in our next one!!! If you guys can't hold the line, then we are screwed.
We have the 75% of OE need can be blocked from FO bidding and as a 747 FO it absolutely sucks. Choice Flying trips are blocked every month, leaving less flying trips for senior folks to bid on. So, more senior folks are forced into Bunkie (IRO) slots. Increasing the likelyhood that you will get to go back to the training center for landings, YIPEEEEEEEE!!!! Also build less lines, so you need less FOs, forcing folks on to reserve that should hold a line and denying bids to the next folks in line that want to upgrade. That of course cascades down the rest of the seniority list and like the preverbial snowball going down a hill gains size as it goes, you end up with folks on the outside that can't get in. It is a huge give to the company!!!!
The other part that we already have is the relaxed counting for JV/Scope. If you want to know how bad it is, the best example I can give is the LAX to Germany routes. We used to fly a 777 from LAX to FRA, but we don't anymore. Bad route you say, I laugh in your general direction, it is a great route!!!, just ask Lufthansa. They are currently flying an A380 from LAX-FRA, a 747-800 from LAX-FRA and an A340 from LAX-MUC. Thanks to our brilliant JV/Scope that is perfectly legal even though we don't get any metal on the route. A 757-200 counts the same as an A380!!!! You have got to be kidding me!!!!!!
Again, these are two of the sections that we swallowed a horse pill over in our last agreement because we didn't have a joint contract and needed to get one to move our group along as one. Our last agreement was a hold your nose and vote yes, because it wasn't really voting yes on a contract as much as it was voting yes to end the separation of the two pilot groups! There is no way our current contract would pass on its own merits and I think you would hear that pretty consistently from the UA group. The gives that you have in your TA are very painful, anyone who tries to tell you differently is a either a Bold Faced Liar or completely ignorant. Those are the only two choices.
If you vote yes on this and are in the bottom 3/4 of the seniority list, I think you will see that, despite the pay raises, your W-2 earnings will actually be lower than they would have been once the widebody growth stagnation is fully realized! Pay raises with no growth on the top end are worse than no pay raises but real Widebody growth!
We had a huge number of outside compelling reasons to vote for a less than ideal contract 3 years ago. Those are gone for us and I don't see anyway that we would vote for your TA and I don't see any reason that you should either!
Just bumping this one. Seemed pertinent and I can't keep up with this forum.
06-14-2015 | 08:07 PM
#8875
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
From: A-320/A
^^^Like the UAL guy indicates…that's our job(s)^^^
At least it's the F/O jobs.
Just wondering out loud, would the CAs here at DAL be OK with the LCAs having first crack at THEIR flying time??? (No need to answer, totally rhetorical question. We all know the answer.)
At least it's the F/O jobs.
Just wondering out loud, would the CAs here at DAL be OK with the LCAs having first crack at THEIR flying time??? (No need to answer, totally rhetorical question. We all know the answer.)
06-14-2015 | 08:07 PM
#8876
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 12
From: A320 Left seat
Pulling 75% of LCA trips from FO bidding before the PBS run? You're going to come back with info that settles us down? Good. I can't wait for you to convince me that this isn't going to affect everyone on the FO seniority list. The smaller categories might not feel it as much but the larger categories are going to get a kick square in the boys....I'll wait for your sales job/analysis before making my no vote a heck no vote.
06-14-2015 | 08:10 PM
#8877
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,350
Likes: 0
From: Flying the SEC
If one adds a trip during the stickball footprint that sick trip is not counted in the FAR conflict calculation. At least that is what I get out of it.
06-14-2015 | 08:23 PM
#8879
Banned
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
06-14-2015 | 08:25 PM
#8880
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
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