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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:36 PM
  #8771  
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Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Speaking of liars, who started the sick verification myth? Then who when knowing better continued to propagate the myth?

Are you going to propagate the myth now that the language is out? Might not be a good idea because if a sceptic decides to check the facts he may be a little taken back by the dishonesty.
Do you now or have you ever worked within the MEC? Your arrogance is resembling that of one of the MEC guys from the ALPA board that got taken down.

Talk about the scenarios where the company or their third party medical admin can gain access to all individual pilot medical records under the current contract and under the proposed contract. Show details for both.
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:37 PM
  #8772  
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Originally Posted by LivingTheDream
I am mounting a recall effort for lec 44, the mec chair and the nc (indirectly) because I believe they did not follow the direction of their constituents. Period. We will soon see if others agree.

I have the assistance of a north guy who was successful with a north recall.

Unfortunately, I am leaving the country for two weeks starting the 21st. If any local atl guy (for logistical reasons) can co-sponsor this effort, please pm me.

I feel it is imperative that this occurs prior to the close of the TA vote.

Thanks.

How do we do this???
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:37 PM
  #8773  
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Here's the definition:

“Verification threshold” means on a rolling consecutive 365 day basis, 15 or more work days missed due to sickness.
Note one: For a pilot who transitions to temporary or long term disability, work days missed due to sickness during the rolling 365 day period preceding his transition to temporary or long term disability will not be counted towards the verification threshold.
Note two: Work days missed during a sick occurrence in excess of 20 consecutive calendar days will not be counted towards the verification threshold provided the sick occurrence was timely verified under Section 14 F. 2. b. and so long as the sickness included:
a. surgery,
b. hospitalization,
c. fractured bone that prevented a pilot from exercising the privileges of his FAA medical certificate, or
d. a serious medical condition which, in the sole discretion of the Director – Health Services, is confirmed through objective pathology, and the pilot provides a medical release under Section 14 G. even if the pilot is not otherwise subject to a medical release threshold.
Note three: Work days missed upon the exhaustion of FAA leave under Section 13 K. will not be counted towards the verification threshold.

Last edited by SharpestTool; 06-14-2015 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:40 PM
  #8774  
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Originally Posted by slowplay
You are wrong about this.

Take a look at your current PWA and then the TA. Management can already use the paint and logo on partners. The TA makes it where the MEC chair has to approve it or not. It is limited to International Partner Flying where the partner isn't a company affiliate. It gives us control over something we didn't have control of before.

It means SkyTeam paint jobs. The provision has been around since we started alliances in the 1990's so things can be co-branded. It has nothing to do with outsourcing.
Why don't you copy and paste both sections (old and new) showing this.
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:40 PM
  #8775  
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Originally Posted by Moondog
That's medical release threshold not medical verification threshold. Not exactly sure what the difference is, it's pretty convoluted.
Verification, you get a QHCP certificate from a medical professional with whom you have a bona fide patient relationship that contains a description of your sickness (no more "general terms") and estimated return to work date. (14.A.1, 14.A.2xx)

Release - which can be required due to release threshold OR if DHS finds the QHCP certificate inadequate - you sign a written authorization for release of your medical records to DHS. If they're not satisfied, they can pass the records on to a company designated doctor or the Senior VP of Flight Ops (14.G.1-3).

We're creating a monster in DHS, in my opinion. This TA is a bit of a hydra with a lot of big threats.
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:42 PM
  #8776  
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Originally Posted by SharpestTool
Here's the definition:

“Verification threshold” means on a rolling consecutive 365 day basis, or more work days missed due to sickness.
Note one: For a pilot who transitions to temporary or long term disability, work days missed due to sickness during the rolling 365 day period preceding his transition to temporary or long term disability will not be counted towards the verification threshold.
Note two: Work days missed during a sick occurrence in excess of 20 consecutive calendar days will not be counted towards the verification threshold provided the sick occurrence was timely verified under Section 14 F. 2. b. and so long as the sickness included:
a. surgery,
b. hospitalization,
c. fractured bone that prevented a pilot from exercising the privileges of his FAA medical certificate, or
d. a serious medical condition which, in the sole discretion of the Director – Health Services, is confirmed through objective pathology, and the pilot provides a medical release under Section 14 G. even if the pilot is not otherwise subject to a medical release threshold.
Note three: Work days missed upon the exhaustion of FAA leave under Section 13 K. will not be counted towards the verification threshold.
I see you conveniently edited out the 15 days section of that excerpt. Another half truth or lie by omission. The devil is in the details. Nice try.
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:43 PM
  #8777  
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Originally Posted by Moondog
I see you conveniently edited out the 15 days section of that excerpt. Another half truth or lie by omission. The devil is in the details. Nice try.
HAH! Nice catch. I've been over that section so many times I mentally substituted the 15 days.
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:44 PM
  #8778  
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Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Recalling the C44 reps is going to be key to this. That cannot happen fast enough.

Carl
Recall the reps? If this is to help defeat the TA, you do not have the time. If it is to get new reps in for a longer process, maybe.

I suggest concentrating on getting pilots to see how bad the TA is and exercise their vote. That is a time critical issue.
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:44 PM
  #8779  
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Originally Posted by SharpestTool
You should be worried. Most of the captains have been around the block. They understand timely money in the pocket. They also understand that going back to RA for more is a silly thing to believe in. They understand that the next stop is the NMB and what happens down that road. Please see SWA, UPS, Fedex, Former US Airways, former AA.

Funny, my FO on my trip thinks it is a slam dunk Yes. Also, our jumpseating 767ER FO said it was a no brainer Yes as well. Both cited that history is littered with examples of not getting materially superior agreements after failed ratification or rejected TAs. Both also thought the NMB would laugh in DALPA's face when we demand more. Besides, looking at fixed pay plus PS, who could argue with AA + 20% or more?

Must admit, I wasn't going to argue against them. Smart FOs.
How incredibly shortsighted. I'm with Denny; this TA is about way more than dollars. I'm not insulted by the company's financial offer. They should offer us the minimum they think we will accept as that is their job. It's all the other garbage in here. QOL losses that might not seem bad individually, like increasing the TLV, pay no credit for vacation, and OE pull outs, add up to a lot more time at work. Sick leave is a total disaster on its own. Scope is carved out at the top and the bottom. The company reached for the stars on this and our NC gave it to them. Our MEC then punted their responsibility to say no right back to us. Time for us to grow a backbone and meet that responsibility. Easy no vote.

Last edited by Spudhauler; 06-14-2015 at 12:45 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-14-2015 | 12:47 PM
  #8780  
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Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble
Recall the reps? If this is to help defeat the TA, you do not have the time. If it is to get new reps in for a longer process, maybe.

I suggest concentrating on getting pilots to see how bad the TA is and exercise their vote. That is a time critical issue.
Recalling the reps creates publicity that there's a large contingent of dissatisfied no voters.

It also puts pressure on the more politically minded reps to back away from support of the TA (embracing the "I hate it, I just thought everyone should have a choice" copout), thus providing more ammunition for No advocates.

Happy side benefit: new MEC and NC once we vote it down. Do it right this time, and we're still several months before the contract is amendable!
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