I guess I am getting at how much training and OE will be required when 800/yr in retirements hit. Add growth to that and it should be significantly bigger than now.

That's a lot of LCA flying that first officers won't be able to bid.

Think about how many people kicked back to reserve that equals. Think about how many green slips and white slips missed that equals due to the extra reserves. How about some projections on that (without the optimistic spin)?

No matter what, it is far far worse than the measly 150 or so pilots affected that they threw to us at the MEC meeting. Every FO gets affected by this as well as junior CAs as game theory takes hold and bidding strategies change as premium pay is cut.

they should've just said " no GS if you get removed from a LCA trip". that would be bad too and I still would vote no, but at least it would seem to affect their target instead of every FO. There seems to be another motive here, but I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps if we send this back, that's their plan B and then we will view it as a win even though it isn't.

Actually, that wouldn't have affected their target at all. It's not that they mind those guys flying greenslips; if they're gonna get bought off LCA trips, the company would probably rather they help cover the open flying vs sitting at home. The company doesn't like paying *two* FOs for the same trip. By withholding the trip for OE, they only have to pay one FO for the trip, force everyone else on down the list until there's one extra guy on reserve, and he can fly the open trip for RSV guarantee. It's win-win-win...for the company.

yeah that makes sense-i just assumed their beef was with the few guys getting 200 hours a month, but you're right. I think they should just realize it's the cost of doing business, but here we are staring at this TA.

80,

I am not that pleased with the pay rates. We effectively get an 8% raise - this one is pure since we got the COLA on 1 Jan 15. But that's it, the next raise is offset by the PS give back and the last two raises won't meet inflation. Remember in C2012, when they told us we would never see the 2014/15 raises because we'd be back at the table?

The raises aren't the only positive in this TA, but they're the main player and the roadshows will HEAVILY be weighted toward them. Let's not forget how much money DAL made last year. This isn't a BK contract, though it sure reads like one.

So in the end, I have to ask the MEC "Why did you TA a deal that gives us only an 8% raise EARLY but burn all of the furniture to do it? Do you buy cars at over MSRP too?"

Bingo! That is the immediate consequence of the buy off. Then let the consequences of that roll downhill...

This is no 'Oh the 190s are going to replace 88's." That is conjecture at best. This is quantifiable, yet very complex math on predicting how it will effect everyone and their behavior with the prior stated changes. (I personally go for super high value per day up to GS trigger and then will only GS above that- with reduced GS due to increased reserves I will be forced change my gaming of bidding)

HITLER reads TA
 

Details on Delta TA
 

Heard a rumor that the first E-190 is going to be named, "Spirit of Delta Pilots"

[emoji3]


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But if you are talking new hire OE, that guy is working for peanuts. $3771/month salary not flight pay.