Details on Delta TA
06-14-2015 | 08:29 PM
#8881
Banned
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 988
Likes: 0
That's a lot of LCA flying that first officers won't be able to bid.
06-14-2015 | 08:36 PM
#8882
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
No matter what, it is far far worse than the measly 150 or so pilots affected that they threw to us at the MEC meeting. Every FO gets affected by this as well as junior CAs as game theory takes hold and bidding strategies change as premium pay is cut.
06-14-2015 | 08:40 PM
#8883
Line Holder
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 643
Likes: 52
Think about how many people kicked back to reserve that equals. Think about how many green slips and white slips missed that equals due to the extra reserves. How about some projections on that (without the optimistic spin)?
No matter what, it is far far worse than the measly 150 or so pilots affected that they threw to us at the MEC meeting. Every FO gets affected by this as well as junior CAs as game theory takes hold and bidding strategies change as premium pay is cut.
No matter what, it is far far worse than the measly 150 or so pilots affected that they threw to us at the MEC meeting. Every FO gets affected by this as well as junior CAs as game theory takes hold and bidding strategies change as premium pay is cut.
06-14-2015 | 09:03 PM
#8884
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,518
Likes: 0
From: B737 CA
they should've just said " no GS if you get removed from a LCA trip". that would be bad too and I still would vote no, but at least it would seem to affect their target instead of every FO. There seems to be another motive here, but I'm not sure what it is. Perhaps if we send this back, that's their plan B and then we will view it as a win even though it isn't.
06-14-2015 | 09:04 PM
#8885
Line Holder
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 643
Likes: 52
Actually, that wouldn't have affected their target at all. It's not that they mind those guys flying greenslips; if they're gonna get bought off LCA trips, the company would probably rather they help cover the open flying vs sitting at home. The company doesn't like paying *two* FOs for the same trip. By withholding the trip for OE, they only have to pay one FO for the trip, force everyone else on down the list until there's one extra guy on reserve, and he can fly the open trip for RSV guarantee. It's win-win-win...for the company.
06-14-2015 | 09:12 PM
#8886
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,601
Likes: 0
From: Dismayed
Exactly right. I was overall quite pleased when I saw the money.
How incredibly disappointing when you start to peel back the layers. It's all about increasing productivity with less premiums while also giving the company more leeway in areas they wanted.
If slowplay would look around that FDX thread, they were at first upset with their progress, but they have attained some perspective that maybe their path isn't as bad as it seems with what we are giving up to get this quick TA. The UA comment he had was the only positive one, the rest were saying "no no no!" particularly with the LCA holdback thing (one of their biggest desires to fix).
How incredibly disappointing when you start to peel back the layers. It's all about increasing productivity with less premiums while also giving the company more leeway in areas they wanted.
If slowplay would look around that FDX thread, they were at first upset with their progress, but they have attained some perspective that maybe their path isn't as bad as it seems with what we are giving up to get this quick TA. The UA comment he had was the only positive one, the rest were saying "no no no!" particularly with the LCA holdback thing (one of their biggest desires to fix).
I am not that pleased with the pay rates. We effectively get an 8% raise - this one is pure since we got the COLA on 1 Jan 15. But that's it, the next raise is offset by the PS give back and the last two raises won't meet inflation. Remember in C2012, when they told us we would never see the 2014/15 raises because we'd be back at the table?
The raises aren't the only positive in this TA, but they're the main player and the roadshows will HEAVILY be weighted toward them. Let's not forget how much money DAL made last year. This isn't a BK contract, though it sure reads like one.
So in the end, I have to ask the MEC "Why did you TA a deal that gives us only an 8% raise EARLY but burn all of the furniture to do it? Do you buy cars at over MSRP too?"
06-14-2015 | 09:16 PM
#8887
Da Hudge
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 17,473
Likes: 0
From: Poodle Whisperer
Actually, that wouldn't have affected their target at all. It's not that they mind those guys flying greenslips; if they're gonna get bought off LCA trips, the company would probably rather they help cover the open flying vs sitting at home. The company doesn't like paying *two* FOs for the same trip. By withholding the trip for OE, they only have to pay one FO for the trip, force everyone else on down the list until there's one extra guy on reserve, and he can fly the open trip for RSV guarantee. It's win-win-win...for the company.
This is no 'Oh the 190s are going to replace 88's." That is conjecture at best. This is quantifiable, yet very complex math on predicting how it will effect everyone and their behavior with the prior stated changes. (I personally go for super high value per day up to GS trigger and then will only GS above that- with reduced GS due to increased reserves I will be forced change my gaming of bidding)
06-14-2015 | 11:43 PM
#8890
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 1,915
Likes: 176
From: MD88
Actually, that wouldn't have affected their target at all. It's not that they mind those guys flying greenslips; if they're gonna get bought off LCA trips, the company would probably rather they help cover the open flying vs sitting at home. The company doesn't like paying *two* FOs for the same trip. By withholding the trip for OE, they only have to pay one FO for the trip, force everyone else on down the list until there's one extra guy on reserve, and he can fly the open trip for RSV guarantee. It's win-win-win...for the company.
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