Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Hey Dogwhisperer, any chance at adding a little levity to this week by cartooning a scene at the negotiation table with each side drawing a "demand" out of the other's fishbowl--doing 1 for 1 trades independent of value. Sort of a we get, "Move the ATL Block party to a cooler week in May" for their "Raise PS threshold to $6,000,000,000.00"

Just trying to keep the BP down!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moondog (Post 1905912)

8/6/3/3 would be more tolerable, not acceptable mind you, if they left PS as is. At least it would be a small raise. 8/0/3/3 with PS the same is basically 4/4/3/3 which barely keeps with inflation. Don't misunderstand me, I am all for converting soft money to hard money, but not with a loan shark. Rather get a fair exchange rate.

Long term 4/4/3/3 results in a higher rate than 8/0/3/3.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 1905866)

Sure I'll share why I'm voting yes.
50 E190s will provide at least 500 mainline jobs at the best 190 pay rates in the world for a unionized airline. that the E190 will replace the MD88 a wild guess and highly unlikely.

It's time for this union to stop using phrases such as "highly unlikely" when describing contract language that "can and WILL". Time and again, the company has shown they will exploit any lose language. When loopholes are left open, history has shown it harms this pilot group. Those high priced lawyers in Herdon have shown an inability to think as many steps ahead as the company. The language needs to be clear and easy to understand/interpret and favorable to our pilots or leave it alone. We are not seeing that here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 1905866)

Sick policy. I'm completely fine with the new rule. I don't call in sick unless I'm actually sick so no problem there. If I somehow exceed a threshold I have no problem getting a doctors note or them opening up my medical records to that particular sick call. The notion that the company will will have access to your entire medical history is false. Another internet rumor that's running wild.

Because you say it's so doesn't make it so. We have already had experts who actually deal in this arena tell us it will in fact force us to give access to our medical records to those who have no business digging around in them. Downplaying this serious breach of privacy smacks of selfishness. It is a BFD!!! Additionally, it is not hard to see how this slippery slope quickly turns into pilot pushing. ALPA of all people should not be selling this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 1905866)

LCA. Worst concession of the contract. I'll let them have it due to the increased pay and mainline growth. With A321, A330, 737-900, and E190 in 2016, then A350 in 2017. The movement will be epic and unprecedented. I believe it's entirely reasonable to give the company some relief here. Greenslips will still flow. United has a similar LCA deal and there is plenty of premium pay there. The reduction of manning by this concession is more than offset by increase of 500 mainline jobs on the 190.

Epic? Really?! Show me the language that proves any of the above aircraft aren't replacement aircraft. Btw, most of those aircraft (and resulting jobs) you site as growth are already on the books including the A321, A330, 737-900, and A350). It would seem your argument jumps the tracks. Are you DALPA guys capable of making an honest point ever? You dump info with misleading BS and hope it sticks. Anything to change perception and get people to vote yes.

Regarding "no big deal, United is doing it", we've already had some of their pilots chiming in with real world experience of how bad this sucks. They are saying "DO NOT ALLOW THIS CHANGE TO HAPPEN!" I see you quoted the fabled increase of 500 jobs again to make your point. Nobody believes you anymore. Nobody cares about the meager pay increase. Too many bad things in this contract to even consider it. You are welcome to vote yes. I pray that the majority of our pilots are smarter than this and vote no.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdborg (Post 1905926)

For those of you who say "I only call in sick if I'm sick so it won't affect me". I'm very happy for you (and a little jealous) that you are sick so infrequently. By stating it that way you imply that anyone who goes over must be abusing sick leave. I use almost 100 hours every year. I've gone as high as 130 hours and as little as 60. I get a sinus infection almost every spring and fall during allergy season and I have a bad back that goes out 2-3 times a year. I really don't care if they want to see my medical history about these issues (they go back over 25 years). My problem is, if I can't self verify on these issues then any cold, stomach issues, or any other sick that I would not need to verify for will now need verification. Thanks DALPA.

This is a fact. Some folks simply get sick more often than others. There are a variety of reasons including age, immune systems of varying strength, small children in the house, juniority with schedules that tax the body more and so on. Trying to coral all the pilots into one size fits all and hanging a hammer over them, is ridiculous.

Also, guys that say it doesn't effect them, it's amazing how quickly things change when something devastating disrupts their otherwise good health.

Slowplay,

Still waiting....

I asked you to post ALL info related to this change. You didn't do that. You posted part of it then told me to go gather the rest on my own. You guys are cherry picking. Please stop.

While you are gathering ALL relevant information I have two other questions I posed to SharpestTool I would like you to answer while waiting for him.

1. Do you now or have you ever worked within the MEC?

2. Talk about the scenarios where the company or their third party medical admin can gain access to all individual pilot medical records under the current contract and under the proposed contract. Show details for both.

Thanks 80ktsClamp for banning sharpetstool who was clearly spreading false information. He added zero to the conversation in helping people become correctly educated. There are other folks doing the same. I'll point out where I can. Thanks again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LivingTheDream (Post 1905558)

Sorry, won't be able to spend a lot of time here... going to take some serious time to mount this effort.

Working with a north guy that mounted a successful recall while he was on the north side.

Again, this is about reps not following our direction. Nothing more or less.

It's also about the MEC administration purposely not following the direction of the MEC (and by extension) our direction.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1905966)

It's also about the MEC administration purposely not following the direction of the MEC (and by extension) our direction.

Carl

Carl, are you me in a parallel universe? We just posted at the same time. Sailingfun thinks we are the same person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trip7 (Post 1905908)

You stated the raises barely keep up with inflation. Many bring up the inflation argument and it's a compelling argument in regards to buying power. But what is always not mentioned is how inflation also affects our current rates. Whatever raise we get holds that same percentage vs our current contract, so it's irrelevant to call C2015 a 6/-2/1/1 raise because the C2015 has a raise of -2/-2/-2.

Secondly the reduction of profit sharing self funds 6%. So a 21% raise over 3 years is truly a 15% raise. Not a home run but that's a decent chunk of change. And we'll be back to the table in 2018, 2 years before AA's CURRENT deal expires

so you mean to say "we'll get 'em next time"? Heard that before...

Quote:

Originally Posted by sailingfun (Post 1905585)

As I posted 10% is a huge exaggeration of pilots doing OE. We only carry 10% LCA's. They have to do line checks, theatre quals, special flts as well as OE. They are also given trips with no LCA duties.

And as I posted, it doesn't matter the number. Whether it's 10% or your made up number, the problem is that there's even 0.01%. Why would we do that to our FO's? Why?!

Carl