Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1906686)

You are a paid mouthpiece for the MEC administration to post on message boards. There's no question about that. Your job is to stay on message or you won't get paid. Fact.

Carl

Since you have a very strong anti-ALPA agenda that's a bad thing for you. For those of us who want to understand the TA before we vote, it's a good thing. Thanks for the time you put in here Professor on what's become almost a completely one-sided source of information/mis-information. I'm an on-the-fence leaning toward no voter but it's disturbing to watch anyone who has a remotely positive thing to say get dragged down like a Saddam Hussein statue after the war. Add the grenades tossed by people who work for regional carriers and other unidentified places and it's a real mess here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906652)

I am not being paid.

Yes, you are. Can't imagine what you hope to gain by lying about it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906634)

I will give you a current account of my FPL.
21 hours.

For the new folks here, FPL is Flight Pay Loss.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906507)

I think that everyone comes into a TA with their entire life's history. It informs their viewpoint on the TA and its validity in the scope of their airline experience.

The question everyone has to ask, I think, is this: are the pay increases worth the concessions? And only you can answer that.

IF this TA passes in 2018 Delta pilot pay will have increased 82% in a decade. So while the past may inform everyone's decision it is important to keep in mind the reality of our contract improvements (and give backs) of the last decade are NOT normal to the history of the industry.

So you wonder why guys are critical? You conveniently pick the time frame (decade) that makes your point but does not tell the full story.

How about we go to back to 2004?

If you want to gain some credibility how about the whole truth? Or do you have to stick with the DALPA talking points?

Scoop :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1906700)

Yes, you are. Can't imagine what you hope to gain by lying about it:

Carl

Prove it then, and I will agree with your side. Other than that it is more of your patented union busting tactics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1906694)

Of course it does.

You posted this:

AA has just published new comparison pay charts for their pilots.

In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis.

Attached Images

AA comparison paycharts.pdf (71.7 KB, 9 views)

Helping people to understand the TA would have been something like this- first, strike out your editorial comment:

"In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis."

Then post something like this:

Here are some recently released charts by AMR and the APA that compare our TA pay to their pay. Our pay exceeds theirs in many areas, but pay attention to the differences on both sides of the scale as details are important. A330 pay is not on an apples to apples comparison due to the difference in bands.

Those are facts. That would have been truly "helping people understand a TA that has lots of changes (that) isn't all that easy to decipher"

So, what did you say again about confirmation and information bias???

:D

I don't agree. My point was to show that we are trying and put out third party info. Separate and apart from delta.

You are extrapolating a lot from a benign post about numbers. That is rhetorical and biased.

Not once have I ever disagreed with your point on 330 rates. Ever.

But if I were to mention anything positive in those charts, like 190 rates being by far this highest in the industry, you would have labeled me a sycophant.

I do understand your points though and will incorporate it into my communications. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1906685)

You mean "facts" like these?:

Of course.

Are you refuting that a fast negotiation, where the company controlled the pace, did not work to our advantage?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1906705)

Of course.

Are you refuting that a fast negotiation, where the company controlled the pace, did not work to our advantage?

Your parable is not remotely a "fact". You are seriously trying to defend it as such?

Quote:

Originally Posted by SayAlt (Post 1906606)

I have now put "Professor" on ignore. I'd like to invite the rest of you to join me.

Edit: I have included BenderRodriguez as well. I hope you will join me.
.
.

Visual representation of your tips:
http://www.singledudetravel.com/wp-c...rs-in-ears.jpg

Originally Posted by BobZ http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif
bender....this pilot group has a history of the company not having to 'take' anything from us.....

we simply give it away....because dalpa tells us if we don't something even worse will happen....

sound familiar?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez (Post 1906499)

Care to discuss the issue or are you just going to interject hyperbole?

Are you serious? Hyperbole?

So you don't remember the Pilot group taking a voluntary 32% pay cut to avoid BK? Remember do it once do it right?

Oh by the way, how did they honor our voluntary sacrifice - thats right they used the BK tool on us anyway taking another 14% via the 1113 process.

Scoop

I've read thru most of this TA. For me it feels like a give back TA, it's almost like we were bargaining with an airline just barely making it. Our raises are coming from our PS give back. Our sick verification process for an aging pilot group that may in the near future go to 68. There should of been no give back period in this TA, PERIOD!