Airline Pilot Central Forums - Details on Delta TA

Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)

- Delta (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/)

- - Details on Delta TA (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/88532-details-delta-ta.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1906664)

Yes. That's the point of a stock buy back.

Carl

Not a real smart way to enrich themselves though, is it? Come on Carl, you are an executive, you know that doesn't move the needle to any meaningful degree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906634)

For those believing the lies of FPL.
(and) accusing a mis-use of FPL, get the facts.

What lies of FPL loss would those be? I personally did not bring any up. I just commented, "enjoy the FPL" knowing full well you are being paid to be here. Refocus though, what lies about FPL and mis-use of FPL are you talking about and which facts are you referring to that (we) don't get?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906634)

Also, I would love to see any of you work for no pay and say you are not getting totally screwed.

99% of the people here are NOT being paid to be here and are volunteering their time free of charge to make sure ALL the facts and full language about this TA are verified and broadcast instead of just the talking bullet points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906634)

I'm not complaining. I am a volunteer. But get your facts straight and stop the childish and baseless allegations to try and recruit other's to your island of rancor and discontent.

Wow. All this time here fighting to hold ground you are losing is having a toll.

If this is an "island of rancor and discontent" here, why bother being here at all as by definition you'd be wasting your time with Donatellii's 1% ?

Over a million views since the TA came out.

Facebook group has grown exponentially as well after forming after the TA.

Chitchat traffic and views off the charts.

So, are publishing the letters from John Malone, former reps, other ALPA airline reps, and from the reps at Delta that voted NO, these letters are in your words "childish and baseless allegations"?

Professor? Come on now, what lies about FPL were you referring to? Also, what about those baseless and childish allegations from those keyboard warriors that served in the trenches?

Going to explain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1906664)

Yes. That's the point of a stock buy back.

Carl

Once more, your rhetorical take users monocular vision to portray the problem.

Yes, buybacks enhance positions held by DAL executives.

But as a PUBLICLY held concern the mission of the Delta BoD is to return value to their shareholders. Buybacks do this two ways. It gives some shareholders payouts and decreases the number of shares thereby increasing individual stock share prices. But you know this.

So to say that a stock buyback program is wholly a ploy by management is misleading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by qball (Post 1906663)

Thanks for your time and effort. But just looking at the Negotiators Notepad...the last thing before the signature line...is a highlighted " we urge you to vote yes". I hope all the roadshow reps feel as you do re: "educate yourself and vote as you see fit". That is not what our MEC is urging.

I agree also, but is it really that important? It doesn't change how I am reading the TA, and how I will decide. Does it affect you in that way? It's minutiae, and really not worth getting spun up over imho.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906628)

That is not true Carl. That language remains unchanged in this contract. The general medical release is a description of the specific illness related to the absence and is not a medical record release. There are many things that do remain completely unchanged in this sick leave policy. Not a distortion.

You're purposely putting out false information. The changes in red font in our TA supersedes current language. I invite anyone to read the actual TA language for yourself. You'll see how distorted and false this last negotiators notepad is on sick leave.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1906681)

Carl,

Once more.
You brought up specifics. I addressed them. Your take on them was not correct.

IF you have more specifics, I'm sure I can answer them or someone else can.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1906676)

You mean "facts" like these?:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1906521)

The way it was just done was a text book example of how one allows themselves to get negotiated into a corner and checkmated.

DELTA: we need a quick agreement, let's open early! Fast fast

US: ok, let's go.

DELTA: we need drastic changes to SL verification, access to medical records conducted by a third party, and we require the ability to look back.

US: no way what we have now is adequate. How about a bank instead? We need to study this.

DELTA: no way, this is non negotiable. Come on faster, faster.

US: ok then, but bring your check book when we talk money.

DELTA: we want virtual bases. Again non negotiable, we must have it. Quickly now.

US: no way, it abrogates seniority. Not happening

DELLTA: we are trying to do this fast. Come on now. We need it. We have a manning problem. We will bring the check book.

US: ok, let us talk to the reps and the MEC. Pause-pause-pause- talk-confer. So you are going bring the check book cause this is going to cost you, right?

DELTA: of course we are going to bring it, next up is scope. More big RJs and we need you to relax the JV scope and language.

US: what, wait, this is a lot of stuff real fast here. Slow down, scope give backs now! In this environ...

DELTA: we NEED THIS. We are bring the check book. Come on hurry up and get with the program.

US: ok.

DELTA: ok, here is the money, we will write you a check.

First, the e ground rules...... Changing PS trigger, 2.5 to 6 B and we are going to change the how it is calculated by subtracting stock options and the salary of executives from the current PTIX definition to come up with a new lower PTIX. So we are going to pay ourselves first and increase our pay once we sign this, you know, a bonus for a job well done.

You are going to pay for your pay increase from PS. When it's all said and done, 8/0/3/3, that's it. 1 % DC but not for nearly two years from now. And five pennies per hour-snicker-snicker-is all we could possibly afford for a per diem increase, that's it.

US: no way, you said you are going to bring the check book , this is not enough. This is not nearly enough for all the gives we just TA'd for you. We engaged you proactively! Come on now, this is not how it works.

DELTA: we brought the check book, see it? However, this is all we are writing the check for. Take it or leave it. Leave it we go to traditional section 6 negotiations and we are done for now. OBTW, we won't get those mD88 replacements and that other jet that will make us a 10 fleet airline, with more training head aches, that we plan on paying a B scale wage for if you don't do this NOW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906634)

For those believing the lies of FPL.

I will give you a current account of my FPL.
21 hours.

I have been at a 3 day meeting. 1 day of training. And currently average 6 hours a day everyday answering questions on various social media outlets.

So before we start accusing a mis-use of FPL, get the facts.

Also, I would love to see any of you work for no pay and say you are not getting totally screwed.

I'm not complaining. I am a volunteer. But get your facts straight and stop the childish and baseless allegations to try and recruit other's to your island of rancor and discontent.

But, as always, please keep the questions flowing and we will attempt to get you information.

You are a paid mouthpiece for the MEC administration to post on message boards. There's no question about that. Your job is to stay on message or you won't get paid. Fact.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1906686)

You are a paid mouthpiece for the MEC administration to post on message boards. There's no question about that. Your job is to stay on message or you won't get paid. Fact.

Carl

I AM NOT GETTING PAID BY ANYONE ANYMORE!

What part are you not picking up about that?

There is no stick and carrot. We bring forward the facts of the TA. Good and bad.

And there are both.

Just stop it Carl. Again, you are wrong and couching your language in a narrative that is fun because it points to an evil empire conspiracy that you are bravely fighting.

Everyone, please educate yourselves on the reality of the TA and its language. Vote as you see fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Professor (Post 1906652)

Reference my FPL post.

I am not being paid. At this point I am a volunteer in the truest sense. And my service to this group has nothing to do with blind loyalty to DALPA or any other organization.

It has to do with helping people understand a TA that has lots of changes and isn't all that easy to decipher.

Of course it does.

You posted this:

"AA has just published new comparison pay charts for their pilots.

In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis."

Attached Images
AA comparison paycharts.pdf (71.7 KB, 9 views)

Helping people to understand the TA would have been something like this- first, strike out your editorial comment:

"In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis."

Then post something like this:

Here are some recently released charts by AMR and the APA that compare our TA pay to their pay. Our pay exceeds theirs in many areas, but pay attention to the differences on both sides of the scale as details are important. A330 pay is not on an apples to apples comparison due to the difference in bands.

Those are facts. That would have been truly "helping people understand a TA that has lots of changes (that) isn't all that easy to decipher"

So, what did you say again about confirmation and information bias???

:D