Details on Delta TA
#9231
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by BobZ
bender....this pilot group has a history of the company not having to 'take' anything from us.....
we simply give it away....because dalpa tells us if we don't something even worse will happen....
sound familiar?
Are you serious? Hyperbole?
So you don't remember the Pilot group taking a voluntary 32% pay cut to avoid BK? Remember do it once do it right?
Oh by the way, how did they honor our voluntary sacrifice - thats right they used the BK tool on us anyway taking another 14% via the 1113 process.
Scoop
bender....this pilot group has a history of the company not having to 'take' anything from us.....
we simply give it away....because dalpa tells us if we don't something even worse will happen....
sound familiar?
Are you serious? Hyperbole?
So you don't remember the Pilot group taking a voluntary 32% pay cut to avoid BK? Remember do it once do it right?
Oh by the way, how did they honor our voluntary sacrifice - thats right they used the BK tool on us anyway taking another 14% via the 1113 process.
Scoop
#9233
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
So you wonder why guys are critical? You conveniently pick the time frame (decade) that makes your point but does not tell the full story.
How about we go to back to 2004?
If you want to gain some credibility how about the whole truth? Or do you have to stick with the DALPA talking points?
Scoop
How about we go to back to 2004?
If you want to gain some credibility how about the whole truth? Or do you have to stick with the DALPA talking points?
Scoop
Want to go back to 2004?
Ok. Which side?
Because we end up above 2004 rates in this TA.
For nwa rates we end up 24% or more above 2004 rates.
So on average fNwa pilots are inflation adjusted plus on this TA.
Those are the facts of 2004.
But, you have to decide if the concessions outweigh the gains for you personally, and vote b
#9234
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,880
#9235
It may not always be the smartest way (witness the Delta stock buyback under Leo Mullin?) before bankruptcy. But it is a stock buyback's only purpose.
You don't know me Tsquare. We've never met or spoken. Moving the needle is an undefined term. Stock buy backs provide a floor for common stock to ensure stock options stay above the strike price when the lock ups are over. That benefit is mostly received by executives.
Carl
Carl
#9236
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
I get that, I really do. It doesn't affect me in any way though. Frankly I expect them to "own" the TA and urge pilots to believe that they think it is in our best interests to insist on a yes vote. Still doesn't change the way I would feel about the TA one way or another.
#9238
Absolutely. The question will be posed again to you T Bender:
Are you refuting that a fast negotiation, where the company controlled the pace, did not work to our advantage?
Thanks for the copy on the post T. The more people who see it, the better the understanding of the concept behind controlling the pace of negotiation. We took it a step further by becoming beholden to the pace in the hopes that the compensation would out weigh the concessions.
Whoops! Got check mated instead.
Here's a repost again
The way it was just done was a text book example of how one allows themselves to get negotiated into a corner and checkmated.
DELTA: we need a quick agreement, let's open early! Fast fast
US: ok, let's go.
DELTA: we need drastic changes to SL verification, access to medical records conducted by a third party, and we require the ability to look back.
US: no way what we have now is adequate. How about a bank instead? We need to study this.
DELTA: no way, this is non negotiable. Come on faster, faster.
US: ok then, but bring your check book when we talk money.
DELTA: we want virtual bases. Again non negotiable, we must have it. Quickly now.
US: no way, it abrogates seniority. Not happening
DELLTA: we are trying to do this fast. Come on now. We need it. We have a manning problem. We will bring the check book.
US: ok, let us talk to the reps and the MEC. Pause-pause-pause- talk-confer. So you are going bring the check book cause this is going to cost you, right?
DELTA: of course we are going to bring it, next up is scope. More big RJs and we need you to relax the JV scope and language.
US: what, wait, this is a lot of stuff real fast here. Slow down, scope give backs now! In this environ...
DELTA: we NEED THIS. We are bring the check book. Come on hurry up and get with the program.
US: ok.
DELTA: ok, here is the money, we will write you a check.
First, the e ground rules...... Changing PS trigger, 2.5 to 6 B and we are going to change the how it is calculated by subtracting stock options and the salary of executives from the current PTIX definition to come up with a new lower PTIX. So we are going to pay ourselves first and increase our pay once we sign this, you know, a bonus for a job well done.
You are going to pay for your pay increase from PS. When it's all said and done, 8/0/3/3, that's it. 1 % DC but not for nearly two years from now. And five pennies per hour-snicker-snicker-is all we could possibly afford for a per diem increase, that's it.
US: no way, you said you are going to bring the check book , this is not enough. This is not nearly enough for all the gives we just TA'd for you. We engaged you proactively! Come on now, this is not how it works.
DELTA: we brought the check book, see it? However, this is all we are writing the check for. Take it or leave it. Leave it we go to traditional section 6 negotiations and we are done for now. OBTW, we won't get those mD88 replacements and that other jet that will make us a 10 fleet airline, with more training head aches, that we plan on paying a B scale wage for if you don't do this NOW.
#9239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
The OP said that a judge would take any payrates back when the company finds themselves in hot water. That got changed to us voluntarily giving it back by the other poster. Two completely different arguments. And I remember during Ron Allen's 7.5 we didn't give up anything initially, so the stereotypical argument isn't ALWAYS true.
#9240
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,880
Want to go back to 2004?
Ok. Which side?
Because we end up above 2004 rates in this TA.
For nwa rates we end up 24% or more above 2004 rates.
So on average fNwa pilots are inflation adjusted plus on this TA.
Those are the facts of 2004.
But, you have to decide if the concessions outweigh the gains for you personally, and vote b
Ok. Which side?
Because we end up above 2004 rates in this TA.
For nwa rates we end up 24% or more above 2004 rates.
So on average fNwa pilots are inflation adjusted plus on this TA.
Those are the facts of 2004.
But, you have to decide if the concessions outweigh the gains for you personally, and vote b
You pick the slide. So our percentage increase in a decade was 82%, what is the percentage increase from 2004?
Oh I see, you conveniently use percentage on the decade scale but now it is "more" and "above." And nice job comparing only the NWA rates as a percentage
You are exactly proving my point. Do you really have so low an opinion of your fellow Pilots that you don't think they can see through this.
Scoop
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post