Details on Delta TA
06-16-2015, 09:22 AM
#9221
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Professor
I am not being paid.
Originally Posted by Professor
I will give you a current account of my FPL.
21 hours.
21 hours.
Carl
06-16-2015, 09:22 AM
#9222
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by Professor
I think that everyone comes into a TA with their entire life's history. It informs their viewpoint on the TA and its validity in the scope of their airline experience.
The question everyone has to ask, I think, is this: are the pay increases worth the concessions? And only you can answer that.
IF this TA passes in 2018 Delta pilot pay will have increased 82% in a decade. So while the past may inform everyone's decision it is important to keep in mind the reality of our contract improvements (and give backs) of the last decade are NOT normal to the history of the industry.
The question everyone has to ask, I think, is this: are the pay increases worth the concessions? And only you can answer that.
IF this TA passes in 2018 Delta pilot pay will have increased 82% in a decade. So while the past may inform everyone's decision it is important to keep in mind the reality of our contract improvements (and give backs) of the last decade are NOT normal to the history of the industry.
So you wonder why guys are critical? You conveniently pick the time frame (decade) that makes your point but does not tell the full story.
How about we go to back to 2004?
If you want to gain some credibility how about the whole truth? Or do you have to stick with the DALPA talking points?
Scoop
06-16-2015, 09:23 AM
#9223
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Yes, you are. Can't imagine what you hope to gain by lying about it:
Carl
Carl
06-16-2015, 09:23 AM
#9224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Originally Posted by TheManager
Of course it does.
You posted this:
AA has just published new comparison pay charts for their pilots.
In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis.
Attached Images
AA comparison paycharts.pdf (71.7 KB, 9 views)
Helping people to understand the TA would have been something like this- first, strike out your editorial comment:
"In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis."
Then post something like this:
Here are some recently released charts by AMR and the APA that compare our TA pay to their pay. Our pay exceeds theirs in many areas, but pay attention to the differences on both sides of the scale as details are important. A330 pay is not on an apples to apples comparison due to the difference in bands.
Those are facts. That would have been truly "helping people understand a TA that has lots of changes (that) isn't all that easy to decipher"
So, what did you say again about confirmation and information bias???
You posted this:
AA has just published new comparison pay charts for their pilots.
In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis.
Attached Images
AA comparison paycharts.pdf (71.7 KB, 9 views)
Helping people to understand the TA would have been something like this- first, strike out your editorial comment:
"In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis."
Then post something like this:
Here are some recently released charts by AMR and the APA that compare our TA pay to their pay. Our pay exceeds theirs in many areas, but pay attention to the differences on both sides of the scale as details are important. A330 pay is not on an apples to apples comparison due to the difference in bands.
Those are facts. That would have been truly "helping people understand a TA that has lots of changes (that) isn't all that easy to decipher"
So, what did you say again about confirmation and information bias???
I don't agree. My point was to show that we are trying and put out third party info. Separate and apart from delta.
You are extrapolating a lot from a benign post about numbers. That is rhetorical and biased.
Not once have I ever disagreed with your point on 330 rates. Ever.
But if I were to mention anything positive in those charts, like 190 rates being by far this highest in the industry, you would have labeled me a sycophant.
I do understand your points though and will incorporate it into my communications. Thanks.
06-16-2015, 09:24 AM
#9226
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Originally Posted by TheManager
Of course.
Are you refuting that a fast negotiation, where the company controlled the pace, did not work to our advantage?
Are you refuting that a fast negotiation, where the company controlled the pace, did not work to our advantage?
06-16-2015, 09:25 AM
#9227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 168
Originally Posted by SayAlt
I have now put "Professor" on ignore. I'd like to invite the rest of you to join me.
Edit: I have included BenderRodriguez as well. I hope you will join me.
.
.
Edit: I have included BenderRodriguez as well. I hope you will join me.
.
.
06-16-2015, 09:26 AM
#9228
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,881
Originally Posted by BobZ
bender....this pilot group has a history of the company not having to 'take' anything from us.....
we simply give it away....because dalpa tells us if we don't something even worse will happen....
sound familiar?
Are you serious? Hyperbole?
So you don't remember the Pilot group taking a voluntary 32% pay cut to avoid BK? Remember do it once do it right?
Oh by the way, how did they honor our voluntary sacrifice - thats right they used the BK tool on us anyway taking another 14% via the 1113 process.
Scoop
bender....this pilot group has a history of the company not having to 'take' anything from us.....
we simply give it away....because dalpa tells us if we don't something even worse will happen....
sound familiar?
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
Care to discuss the issue or are you just going to interject hyperbole?
Are you serious? Hyperbole?
So you don't remember the Pilot group taking a voluntary 32% pay cut to avoid BK? Remember do it once do it right?
Oh by the way, how did they honor our voluntary sacrifice - thats right they used the BK tool on us anyway taking another 14% via the 1113 process.
Scoop
06-16-2015, 09:26 AM
#9229
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
I've read thru most of this TA. For me it feels like a give back TA, it's almost like we were bargaining with an airline just barely making it. Our raises are coming from our PS give back. Our sick verification process for an aging pilot group that may in the near future go to 68. There should of been no give back period in this TA, PERIOD!
06-16-2015, 09:26 AM
#9230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: Cockpit speaker volume knob set to eleven.
Posts: 1,410
Originally Posted by BenderRodriguez
I agree also, but is it really that important? It doesn't change how I am reading the TA, and how I will decide. Does it affect you in that way? It's minutiae, and really not worth getting spun up over imho.
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