Details on Delta TA
06-16-2015 | 09:19 AM
#9221
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,325
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From: 3fidy
Since you have a very strong anti-ALPA agenda that's a bad thing for you. For those of us who want to understand the TA before we vote, it's a good thing. Thanks for the time you put in here Professor on what's become almost a completely one-sided source of information/mis-information. I'm an on-the-fence leaning toward no voter but it's disturbing to watch anyone who has a remotely positive thing to say get dragged down like a Saddam Hussein statue after the war. Add the grenades tossed by people who work for regional carriers and other unidentified places and it's a real mess here.
Last edited by Hawaii50; 06-16-2015 at 09:30 AM.
06-16-2015 | 09:22 AM
#9222
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 12,487
Likes: 0
From: 747-400 Captain
06-16-2015 | 09:22 AM
#9223
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
I think that everyone comes into a TA with their entire life's history. It informs their viewpoint on the TA and its validity in the scope of their airline experience.
The question everyone has to ask, I think, is this: are the pay increases worth the concessions? And only you can answer that.
IF this TA passes in 2018 Delta pilot pay will have increased 82% in a decade. So while the past may inform everyone's decision it is important to keep in mind the reality of our contract improvements (and give backs) of the last decade are NOT normal to the history of the industry.
The question everyone has to ask, I think, is this: are the pay increases worth the concessions? And only you can answer that.
IF this TA passes in 2018 Delta pilot pay will have increased 82% in a decade. So while the past may inform everyone's decision it is important to keep in mind the reality of our contract improvements (and give backs) of the last decade are NOT normal to the history of the industry.
So you wonder why guys are critical? You conveniently pick the time frame (decade) that makes your point but does not tell the full story.
How about we go to back to 2004?
If you want to gain some credibility how about the whole truth? Or do you have to stick with the DALPA talking points?
Scoop
06-16-2015 | 09:23 AM
#9224
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
06-16-2015 | 09:23 AM
#9225
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 618
Likes: 0
Of course it does.
You posted this:
AA has just published new comparison pay charts for their pilots.
In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis.
Attached Images
AA comparison paycharts.pdf (71.7 KB, 9 views)
Helping people to understand the TA would have been something like this- first, strike out your editorial comment:
"In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis."
Then post something like this:
Here are some recently released charts by AMR and the APA that compare our TA pay to their pay. Our pay exceeds theirs in many areas, but pay attention to the differences on both sides of the scale as details are important. A330 pay is not on an apples to apples comparison due to the difference in bands.
Those are facts. That would have been truly "helping people understand a TA that has lots of changes (that) isn't all that easy to decipher"
So, what did you say again about confirmation and information bias???
You posted this:
AA has just published new comparison pay charts for their pilots.
In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis.
Attached Images
AA comparison paycharts.pdf (71.7 KB, 9 views)
Helping people to understand the TA would have been something like this- first, strike out your editorial comment:
"In case you do not trust DALPA's pay analysis."
Then post something like this:
Here are some recently released charts by AMR and the APA that compare our TA pay to their pay. Our pay exceeds theirs in many areas, but pay attention to the differences on both sides of the scale as details are important. A330 pay is not on an apples to apples comparison due to the difference in bands.
Those are facts. That would have been truly "helping people understand a TA that has lots of changes (that) isn't all that easy to decipher"
So, what did you say again about confirmation and information bias???
I don't agree. My point was to show that we are trying and put out third party info. Separate and apart from delta.
You are extrapolating a lot from a benign post about numbers. That is rhetorical and biased.
Not once have I ever disagreed with your point on 330 rates. Ever.
But if I were to mention anything positive in those charts, like 190 rates being by far this highest in the industry, you would have labeled me a sycophant.
I do understand your points though and will incorporate it into my communications. Thanks.
06-16-2015 | 09:24 AM
#9227
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,184
Likes: 0
06-16-2015 | 09:25 AM
#9228
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 168
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06-16-2015 | 09:26 AM
#9229
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,263
Likes: 105
From: DAL 330
Originally Posted by BobZ 
bender....this pilot group has a history of the company not having to 'take' anything from us.....
we simply give it away....because dalpa tells us if we don't something even worse will happen....
sound familiar?
Are you serious? Hyperbole?
So you don't remember the Pilot group taking a voluntary 32% pay cut to avoid BK? Remember do it once do it right?
Oh by the way, how did they honor our voluntary sacrifice - thats right they used the BK tool on us anyway taking another 14% via the 1113 process.
Scoop
bender....this pilot group has a history of the company not having to 'take' anything from us.....
we simply give it away....because dalpa tells us if we don't something even worse will happen....
sound familiar?
Are you serious? Hyperbole?
So you don't remember the Pilot group taking a voluntary 32% pay cut to avoid BK? Remember do it once do it right?
Oh by the way, how did they honor our voluntary sacrifice - thats right they used the BK tool on us anyway taking another 14% via the 1113 process.
Scoop
06-16-2015 | 09:26 AM
#9230
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
I've read thru most of this TA. For me it feels like a give back TA, it's almost like we were bargaining with an airline just barely making it. Our raises are coming from our PS give back. Our sick verification process for an aging pilot group that may in the near future go to 68. There should of been no give back period in this TA, PERIOD!
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