How are we to Fact Check?
07-29-2015 | 06:02 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 1,537
Likes: 0
From: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Way to go, Sailing. It is completely obvious you willingly chose to overlook this totally on-point, honest post that speaks to your concern in the very first sentence, yet demonstrates why your viewpoint is so off the mark (as usual)...
Like Purp said...
Btw...
That's 2 1/2 years from now in an environment where, just over 60 days ago, folks like you believed TA1 was a slam dunk.
Once again, TA1 wasn't just about the money. Everytime anyone focuses exclusively on the money it is a warning flag. TA1 was not rejected because of the money. It was rejected because of the concessions. You know this. And yet you continue to ignore that, chosing into Donatelli fear-mongering, going so far as to say "30 months" instead of 2 1/2 years.
Yes, it's that obvious.
The TA is being used as an opportunity by the diehard DPA guys.
(BUT) This opportunity is being facilitated by the Alpa guys hanging on to their seats. If each LEC would allow their membership to go the DALPA /Alpa route of going thru the recalls and re votes, the DPA opportunity is gone. It is up to each LEC to choose. I believe several yes to the TA guys will keep their seats. Some clearly NEED to go. If the recalls are stonewalled, that, in and of itself, is the DPA opportunity.
This is about delta pilot representation and the best possible contract. We were lied to, plain and simple. We were not honestly represented, plain and simple. This is the opportunity the Delta MEC is fostering for the DPA.
As FTB so concisely noted, Alpa was brought down by an $800k sell job.
if that happens, then yes, it's going to be awhile before we see a TA. That, my friend is entirely on the DALPA MEC...not DPA opportunists.
(BUT) This opportunity is being facilitated by the Alpa guys hanging on to their seats. If each LEC would allow their membership to go the DALPA /Alpa route of going thru the recalls and re votes, the DPA opportunity is gone. It is up to each LEC to choose. I believe several yes to the TA guys will keep their seats. Some clearly NEED to go. If the recalls are stonewalled, that, in and of itself, is the DPA opportunity.
This is about delta pilot representation and the best possible contract. We were lied to, plain and simple. We were not honestly represented, plain and simple. This is the opportunity the Delta MEC is fostering for the DPA.
As FTB so concisely noted, Alpa was brought down by an $800k sell job.
if that happens, then yes, it's going to be awhile before we see a TA. That, my friend is entirely on the DALPA MEC...not DPA opportunists.Like Purp said...
Btw...
That's 2 1/2 years from now in an environment where, just over 60 days ago, folks like you believed TA1 was a slam dunk.
Once again, TA1 wasn't just about the money. Everytime anyone focuses exclusively on the money it is a warning flag. TA1 was not rejected because of the money. It was rejected because of the concessions. You know this. And yet you continue to ignore that, chosing into Donatelli fear-mongering, going so far as to say "30 months" instead of 2 1/2 years.
Yes, it's that obvious.
Last edited by SayAlt; 07-29-2015 at 06:29 AM.
07-29-2015 | 07:10 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 1
Sailing..... so your admonition is 'in the end the delta pilot group will be on the losing end'??
*** have you been the past decade?
With team alpa..... the delta pilots have lost their pension, half their wages, a huge chunk of qol value, and have not recovered to the pwa value of 15 years ago.
And had this group approved the Ta... we would have once again come out on the losing end.
Your comment would be absurdly hilarious, if not for the fact the reality of it all has caused so much damage to all our lives.
In other news.... the airline pilots association has just signed a long term deal with the Chicago cubs to rename Wrigley field" alpa stadium".
representatives from both organizations were quoted, citing "the shared rich history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory"..........
*** have you been the past decade?
With team alpa..... the delta pilots have lost their pension, half their wages, a huge chunk of qol value, and have not recovered to the pwa value of 15 years ago.
And had this group approved the Ta... we would have once again come out on the losing end.
Your comment would be absurdly hilarious, if not for the fact the reality of it all has caused so much damage to all our lives.
In other news.... the airline pilots association has just signed a long term deal with the Chicago cubs to rename Wrigley field" alpa stadium".
representatives from both organizations were quoted, citing "the shared rich history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory"..........
Last edited by BobZ; 07-29-2015 at 07:21 AM.
07-29-2015 | 07:34 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 275
Likes: 0
In 30 months the Loss in pay will be about 25%. 21.5 direct rates, 1% DC, 1% vac and training plus a couple percent more in DC cash from the raise. You are saying that paying a max of 5.74% more in PS is going to bring the company to its knees? Call me confused on that one.
07-29-2015 | 07:57 AM
#44
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
07-29-2015 | 09:58 AM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,870
Likes: 188
Sailing..... so your admonition is 'in the end the delta pilot group will be on the losing end'??
*** have you been the past decade?
With team alpa..... the delta pilots have lost their pension, half their wages, a huge chunk of qol value, and have not recovered to the pwa value of 15 years ago.
And had this group approved the Ta... we would have once again come out on the losing end.
Your comment would be absurdly hilarious, if not for the fact the reality of it all has caused so much damage to all our lives.
In other news.... the airline pilots association has just signed a long term deal with the Chicago cubs to rename Wrigley field" alpa stadium".
representatives from both organizations were quoted, citing "the shared rich history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory"..........
*** have you been the past decade?
With team alpa..... the delta pilots have lost their pension, half their wages, a huge chunk of qol value, and have not recovered to the pwa value of 15 years ago.
And had this group approved the Ta... we would have once again come out on the losing end.
Your comment would be absurdly hilarious, if not for the fact the reality of it all has caused so much damage to all our lives.
In other news.... the airline pilots association has just signed a long term deal with the Chicago cubs to rename Wrigley field" alpa stadium".
representatives from both organizations were quoted, citing "the shared rich history of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory"..........
Results count, rhetoric and talk not so much.
07-29-2015 | 12:33 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 2,960
Likes: 0
From: Power top
You seem to forget that we went from near liquidation back to top of the industry in a short time. I always take results over anything else. If you think RA will boost his pilots costs 20 or 25% above the completion I have many bridges to sell you. Over the last 8 years we have been the only airline that moved the bar. No one else has done a damn thing. UAL threw us completely under the bus with their 6 year Delta lagging contract.
Results count, rhetoric and talk not so much.
Results count, rhetoric and talk not so much.
I'm looking at AMR's A330 hourly wage, is 285/hr correct. Plus he's got some pension. How are we better off?
Hank
07-29-2015 | 02:01 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,870
Likes: 188
Of course our payrate this year with a projected 20% profit sharing is 307 an hour. Their 757/767 rate is 242 compared to 274 with PS for us.
Last edited by sailingfun; 07-29-2015 at 02:14 PM.
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