Do not vote Joe Thomas for C44
10-23-2015 | 01:03 PM
#152
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Likes: 0
I would say that anybody who is bothered by somebody who tells them that they had the experience of serving as a Colonel in the military "yells volumes".
If you don't like the message - fine. But don't be so shallow as to dismiss the message because you didn't like the messenger. Do you want style or substance?
If you don't like the message - fine. But don't be so shallow as to dismiss the message because you didn't like the messenger. Do you want style or substance?
Their message, and the platform they are running on, should speak solely.
Perhaps being a colonel is a liability in an organization that is trying to go back to its mandate of being bottom up. Especially on that talks down to other pilots in their "campaign" letters.
10-23-2015 | 05:35 PM
#153
Line Holder
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: A-320 Capt
Which do you find more "offensive" - if somebody tells you that they served as a squadron commander in the military and reached the rank of Colonel or if they tell you they attended Cornell, got a BS in Economics and went on to earn an MBA at Vanderbilt? One is bragging whereas the other is not?
10-23-2015 | 06:10 PM
#154
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,816
Likes: 5
From: retired 767(dl)
Which do you find more "offensive" - if somebody tells you that they served as a squadron commander in the military and reached the rank of Colonel or if they tell you they attended Cornell, got a BS in Economics and went on to earn an MBA at Vanderbilt? One is bragging whereas the other is not?
10-23-2015 | 06:12 PM
#155
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Regarding Sick Leave:
Joe Thomas C44 candidate for CAP. Rep. recently wrote us a campaign letter with his comments regarding sick leave. In his letter he cites management’s numbers showing a clear increase in sick leave use from 2012 to 2014 of almost 40 percent against a pilot group size growth of only 2 percent. He sides with management that this is a growing issue. He also points the finger at his fellow pilots saying that this is a symptom of a lack of integrity fostering within the pilot group that leads to abuse of sick leave and that if left unchecked, it will undermine morale leading to a more toxic work environment for the rest of us. He goes on to say that putting checks in place is necessary thus he sides with management for more controls.
If you take the numbers the company puts out, then this would seem to be true. Only its not…it’s utter bull****. Both his line and the company line on this are deliberate misrepresentations of what is really going on.
As has been pointed out , DALPA looked at the data in question and confirmed there was an issue with sick leave that, as part of the TA, could be addressed
Are there sick leave abusers within our ranks? Yes, no question. Have been and always will be. It’s just a fact of human nature that a small group of players will always game the system within any group of humans. Pilots are no different.
However, are we all so lame as to let the small group of abusers lead the rest of us into abusing the system as well? Are enough of us so lame as cause an increase in sick leave use through abuse of 40 percent in just two years?
OR…is there another, simpler, more commonsense answer to the trend which involves neither abuse nor rebellious malcontent among the pilot group?
I submit the real reason for the last two-year rise in sick leave use is quite simple, honest and legitimate – which is that we are an aging pilot group being over-worked and this trend will continue.
So up until two years ago we were not an aging pilot group, then BINGO we are an aging pilot group? THAT explains the spike in abuse? Nice try.
It doesn’t take a rocket-surgeon to realize that as we age we are subject to far more ailments than when we were younger and that recovery times are longer and so on.
To support my point, let’s look at pilot retirements. Since 2010 pilot retirement numbers have been fairly low, steady at less than 200 per year. However, as of 2015 that trend will end and retirements are going to spike significantly.
Sick leave abuse had already spiked ( 2013 and 2014 ).
2016 = 211 retirements
2017 = 271
2018 = 386
2019 = 477
2020 = 581
2021 = 776
2022 = 833
2023 = 793
2024 = 792
2025 = 712
2026 = 606
2027 = 515
2028 = 508
2029 = 510
2030 = 539 trending slightly downwards after.
2035 = back down to 251 and stabilizing.
As of the end of 2014 Delta air lines listed 10,750 pilots on its payroll. Of which, based on the retirement numbers above, 5,832 of us are aged 55 and older, with 1,926 being aged 60 or older.
At the end of 2011 only 3,535 of us were 55 and older. Between 2011 and 2012 that number grew to 5,832, which is a 65 percent growth in the number of pilots aged 55 or more. Is it not simply logical that an ever-aging population of pilots, pushed to the extremes by our work rules would have more sick leave usage?
...Extremes of our wok rules? The ones we agreed to in C2012?Sounds like we need someone to protect us from ourselves
Of course it is. I cry bull**** on the whole company argument that we need policing and that malcontent sick abusers are leading the rest of us astray. I also say Joe Thomas is full of bull himself, for not even trying to see if any other correlation might be in play to account for the rise in sick leave use.
And the numbers only get worse for our aging pilot group as over the next five years the numbers of us that are 55 and over will swell by another 752 (after deleting those retiring in the same time frame) by 2020 to a total of 6,584 pilots out of maybe 11,500 by then, with a greater proportion actually over 60.
We are NOT cheaters nor abusers. We are hard working aging pilots.
Some of us are! Just look at the spikes in May '13 and '14.
Give us a break, don’t ask us to justify our sick calls. We KNOW when we shouldn’t be flying and the FAA says don’t fly sick.
To close – just realize that the company line, the chief pilot’s line and Joe Thomas’s line that sick leave abuse is on the rise and needs to be controlled is a TOTAL lie. Sick leave ABUSE is not on the rise…sick leave use is up, commiserate with a rise in our aging pilot group.
Baloney! The spikes are the tells.
Fight the lies. Unite for a solid TA, support restoration! (Don’t vote for Joe T.)
Cheers,
J.D.
Joe Thomas C44 candidate for CAP. Rep. recently wrote us a campaign letter with his comments regarding sick leave. In his letter he cites management’s numbers showing a clear increase in sick leave use from 2012 to 2014 of almost 40 percent against a pilot group size growth of only 2 percent. He sides with management that this is a growing issue. He also points the finger at his fellow pilots saying that this is a symptom of a lack of integrity fostering within the pilot group that leads to abuse of sick leave and that if left unchecked, it will undermine morale leading to a more toxic work environment for the rest of us. He goes on to say that putting checks in place is necessary thus he sides with management for more controls.
If you take the numbers the company puts out, then this would seem to be true. Only its not…it’s utter bull****. Both his line and the company line on this are deliberate misrepresentations of what is really going on.
As has been pointed out , DALPA looked at the data in question and confirmed there was an issue with sick leave that, as part of the TA, could be addressed
Are there sick leave abusers within our ranks? Yes, no question. Have been and always will be. It’s just a fact of human nature that a small group of players will always game the system within any group of humans. Pilots are no different.
However, are we all so lame as to let the small group of abusers lead the rest of us into abusing the system as well? Are enough of us so lame as cause an increase in sick leave use through abuse of 40 percent in just two years?
OR…is there another, simpler, more commonsense answer to the trend which involves neither abuse nor rebellious malcontent among the pilot group?
I submit the real reason for the last two-year rise in sick leave use is quite simple, honest and legitimate – which is that we are an aging pilot group being over-worked and this trend will continue.
So up until two years ago we were not an aging pilot group, then BINGO we are an aging pilot group? THAT explains the spike in abuse? Nice try.
It doesn’t take a rocket-surgeon to realize that as we age we are subject to far more ailments than when we were younger and that recovery times are longer and so on.
To support my point, let’s look at pilot retirements. Since 2010 pilot retirement numbers have been fairly low, steady at less than 200 per year. However, as of 2015 that trend will end and retirements are going to spike significantly.
Sick leave abuse had already spiked ( 2013 and 2014 ).
2016 = 211 retirements
2017 = 271
2018 = 386
2019 = 477
2020 = 581
2021 = 776
2022 = 833
2023 = 793
2024 = 792
2025 = 712
2026 = 606
2027 = 515
2028 = 508
2029 = 510
2030 = 539 trending slightly downwards after.
2035 = back down to 251 and stabilizing.
As of the end of 2014 Delta air lines listed 10,750 pilots on its payroll. Of which, based on the retirement numbers above, 5,832 of us are aged 55 and older, with 1,926 being aged 60 or older.
At the end of 2011 only 3,535 of us were 55 and older. Between 2011 and 2012 that number grew to 5,832, which is a 65 percent growth in the number of pilots aged 55 or more. Is it not simply logical that an ever-aging population of pilots, pushed to the extremes by our work rules would have more sick leave usage?
...Extremes of our wok rules? The ones we agreed to in C2012?Sounds like we need someone to protect us from ourselves
Of course it is. I cry bull**** on the whole company argument that we need policing and that malcontent sick abusers are leading the rest of us astray. I also say Joe Thomas is full of bull himself, for not even trying to see if any other correlation might be in play to account for the rise in sick leave use.
And the numbers only get worse for our aging pilot group as over the next five years the numbers of us that are 55 and over will swell by another 752 (after deleting those retiring in the same time frame) by 2020 to a total of 6,584 pilots out of maybe 11,500 by then, with a greater proportion actually over 60.
We are NOT cheaters nor abusers. We are hard working aging pilots.
Some of us are! Just look at the spikes in May '13 and '14.
Give us a break, don’t ask us to justify our sick calls. We KNOW when we shouldn’t be flying and the FAA says don’t fly sick.
To close – just realize that the company line, the chief pilot’s line and Joe Thomas’s line that sick leave abuse is on the rise and needs to be controlled is a TOTAL lie. Sick leave ABUSE is not on the rise…sick leave use is up, commiserate with a rise in our aging pilot group.
Baloney! The spikes are the tells.
Fight the lies. Unite for a solid TA, support restoration! (Don’t vote for Joe T.)
Cheers,
J.D.
10-23-2015 | 06:42 PM
#156
Otto
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,806
Likes: 0
From: Turkish Pile Driver
Which do you find more "offensive" - if somebody tells you that they served as a squadron commander in the military and reached the rank of Colonel or if they tell you they attended Cornell, got a BS in Economics and went on to earn an MBA at Vanderbilt? One is bragging whereas the other is not?
10-23-2015 | 07:02 PM
#157
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,409
Likes: 882
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
Which do you find more "offensive" - if somebody tells you that they served as a squadron commander in the military and reached the rank of Colonel or if they tell you they attended Cornell, got a BS in Economics and went on to earn an MBA at Vanderbilt? One is bragging whereas the other is not?
I have a tremendous respect for a man with a high school education who drove a truck and taught himself to fly when airplanes were as dangerous as car racing or firefighting. That man never mentioned his accomplishments and lead by example. That man was always defending his neighbors and family. That man became a teamster when working conditions needed improvement. He taught me the heart of a good union is the people who selflessly devote their time and talent for the betterment of the group. That attitude now has a name most MBA's are aware of. It's called servant leadership.
Its not about the level of achievement or the degrees you hold. Would the colonel expect his constituents to march to his drum beat? Or would he forgo his own pride and suspend judgement to defend a fellow pilot that he thought was a sick abuser? That pilot deserves the best representation available as would you or I. It is not the 99% that test and push the boundaries to ensure our contractual rights. It's that 1%. Unless he is willing to wholeheartedly defend every pilot he is not fit for the job. You never know when you will need a good advocate until you do.
10-23-2015 | 07:21 PM
#158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 328
Likes: 0
Agreed.
Show us the data. Show us the RAW data so we can analyze it.
That seems like something DALPA could produce.
Show us a random sampling of 1/3 of the pilot group. That would be roughly 4000 pilots.
Display to us the yearly schedules of 4000 anonymous, random pilots to see how they used their sick leave.
And remember, DAL changed the metrics they use for sick leave a few years ago. They went from "lost work days" to "time called sick and time called well". So we'll need the RAW schedules to have accurate data and determine if we are looking at "lost work days" or "length of illness".
So yes, let's look at the data...just the data.
I'm guessing DALPA could produce this quickly if they wanted to.
Show us the data. Show us the RAW data so we can analyze it.
That seems like something DALPA could produce.
Show us a random sampling of 1/3 of the pilot group. That would be roughly 4000 pilots.
Display to us the yearly schedules of 4000 anonymous, random pilots to see how they used their sick leave.
And remember, DAL changed the metrics they use for sick leave a few years ago. They went from "lost work days" to "time called sick and time called well". So we'll need the RAW schedules to have accurate data and determine if we are looking at "lost work days" or "length of illness".
So yes, let's look at the data...just the data.
I'm guessing DALPA could produce this quickly if they wanted to.
10-23-2015 | 08:02 PM
#159
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,268
Likes: 116
From: DAL 330
Especially in the Navy!
Very rare.Couldn't resist.
Scoop
Last edited by Scoop; 10-23-2015 at 08:20 PM.
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