Latest Negotiator's Notepad
05-25-2016 | 11:12 PM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,971
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From: Kickin’ Back
If the company offers you 1,000,000/hr in exchange for Pulling OE trips before the bid, you would vote no?
I wouldn't.
While I respect the fact that people have their wants for a new deal, this sort of thinking doesn't sit right with me. The point of my example is that there is a point in which a deal can be made, it just may be more than what the company will sell for which keeps things status quo.
I find the idea of voting no for something no matter what to be dangerous and shortsighted and I feel that our guys are smarter than that.
Keep your emotions out of this, see what the deal is, weigh the pros and cons, make your choice.
But, please people don't make rash yes or no votes if they "touch" certain things.
I wouldn't.
While I respect the fact that people have their wants for a new deal, this sort of thinking doesn't sit right with me. The point of my example is that there is a point in which a deal can be made, it just may be more than what the company will sell for which keeps things status quo.
I find the idea of voting no for something no matter what to be dangerous and shortsighted and I feel that our guys are smarter than that.
Keep your emotions out of this, see what the deal is, weigh the pros and cons, make your choice.
But, please people don't make rash yes or no votes if they "touch" certain things.
(Me too for the most part)Denny
05-25-2016 | 11:16 PM
#182
Racketeer
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,248
Likes: 706
From: N60.4858 W149.9327
I'm not "assuming the company point of view"...I'm calling out buffoonish posts.
The "company point of view" would be to go back to the draconian LCA provisions that we agreed to in BK, in which the released pilot not only owed the company recovery obligations, he was at the very top of the list, even ahead of any and all reserves (no matter how overstaffed the category might be)...AND if in an international category could be assigned a trip that returned up to 30 hours after the original trip! In fact it was so punitive that most guys put "avoid trips if LCA" as their first choice.
Then we improved that somewhat (you know, with those E-VILL "Moakist" steps of lots of small improvements when the opportunity arises) when the LCA recovery only came after WS and with quite a few more limitations.
Then we finally achieved our current setup, which is the same as it was back in the good times, where the pilot has zero obligation to the company, but gets paid as if he flew the entire trip. I can assure you that while the company appreciates all those guys GS and WSing, they would much, much prefer how it was post-BK.
I surely would vote against any TA that regressed to that extreme, but let's not for a nanosecond think that our current setup is a "concession." It is only a concession FROM the company TO us.
The "company point of view" would be to go back to the draconian LCA provisions that we agreed to in BK, in which the released pilot not only owed the company recovery obligations, he was at the very top of the list, even ahead of any and all reserves (no matter how overstaffed the category might be)...AND if in an international category could be assigned a trip that returned up to 30 hours after the original trip! In fact it was so punitive that most guys put "avoid trips if LCA" as their first choice.
Then we improved that somewhat (you know, with those E-VILL "Moakist" steps of lots of small improvements when the opportunity arises) when the LCA recovery only came after WS and with quite a few more limitations.
Then we finally achieved our current setup, which is the same as it was back in the good times, where the pilot has zero obligation to the company, but gets paid as if he flew the entire trip. I can assure you that while the company appreciates all those guys GS and WSing, they would much, much prefer how it was post-BK.
I surely would vote against any TA that regressed to that extreme, but let's not for a nanosecond think that our current setup is a "concession." It is only a concession FROM the company TO us.
Talk about buffoonery!
Yeah, lets get some of that!
Here's what gets my NO vote, concessions. Any. All.
In a time of unprecedented profits and currently working under a bankruptcy era pay scale...NO. We already gave.
Last edited by notEnuf; 05-25-2016 at 11:45 PM.
05-26-2016 | 05:54 AM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
05-26-2016 | 06:44 AM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
$999,999/hr is an absolute no for me...... but $1,000,000/hr? Okay.
The rest of you slobs will have to cut your own deal.
what you are hearing is for most, the re-opener thresholds are perceived as falling in line with minimal expectations. And even singular item concessions are unacceptable.
The rest of you slobs will have to cut your own deal.
what you are hearing is for most, the re-opener thresholds are perceived as falling in line with minimal expectations. And even singular item concessions are unacceptable.
05-26-2016 | 06:47 AM
#187
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 852
Likes: 1
[QUOTE=JamesBond;2135526]So yet another ultimatum?[/
James- you must reset your outlook on negotiations. Your method of giving away work rules and PS for a measly pay rate raise and .05 cent per diem increase won't cut the mustard in this era of multi-billion per quarter profit... Why do you continue to advocate concessions??? Hidden agenda?
James- you must reset your outlook on negotiations. Your method of giving away work rules and PS for a measly pay rate raise and .05 cent per diem increase won't cut the mustard in this era of multi-billion per quarter profit... Why do you continue to advocate concessions??? Hidden agenda?
05-26-2016 | 06:48 AM
#189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
James- you must reset your outlook on negotiations. Your method of giving away work rules and PS for a measly pay rate raise and .05 cent per diem increase won't cut the mustard in this era of multi-billion per quarter profit... Why do you continue to advocate concessions??? Hidden agenda?
And your assertion that I have an agenda reeks of paranoia.
05-26-2016 | 06:50 AM
#190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
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