Latest Negotiator's Notepad
05-26-2016 | 07:38 AM
#201
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,253
Likes: 96
From: DAL 330
Interesting argument except that for a certain percentage of the group time is running out. Many members of that same group are also deadzoners that will not be made whole no matter what we get. As each day goes by, they are further and further behind. So the guys newly hired, and those yet to be hired are going to reap the benefits of our steadfastedness while many of us are under the wheels of the bus. Maybe the tradition of captains buying beers needs to change.
Time value of money. (Sorry, I gotta go with Warren Buffet on that one and not some faceless keyboard warrior.) Again, I am not advocating a bad deal nor do I have any agenda. (I am really getting tired of saying that but some don't seem to get that I am just expressing an opinion). The longer we go without a pay increase the further behind we are.
Time value of money. (Sorry, I gotta go with Warren Buffet on that one and not some faceless keyboard warrior.) Again, I am not advocating a bad deal nor do I have any agenda. (I am really getting tired of saying that but some don't seem to get that I am just expressing an opinion). The longer we go without a pay increase the further behind we are.
So who is a dead-zoner? I am 52 with 17 years at DAL. I have less than 13 years left - am I a dead-zoner? I eagerly look forward to buying FOs beers when I upgrade.
I don't understand your argument - have not newly hired Pilots always benefitted from the steadfastness of those who went before them?
OBTW - I don't disagree with you about the TVM but the last TA was not even close.
Scoop
05-26-2016 | 07:48 AM
#202
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 4,116
Likes: 1
Well let me 'splain it then.....
You articulate distress at the seemingly snap 'NO' votes posters cast based on what from your POV, seem to be one dimensional and arbitrary items in the Ta being negotiated.
You may not harbor any distrust, dislike, or perceptions of having been manipulated, deceived, taken advantage of, or simply screwed three ways from Sunday by management........ but that doesn't mean the other 11,999 pilots on this property don't.
I'm guessing at least 68% of the pilots in this group have another NO as a default vote, and are of the mind of having to be thoroughly convinced by the terms of the new TA, that management is sincere in the least of their assertions regarding the value of this pilot group.
We ratify or reject our CBAs in identical fashion. One vote at a time.
You articulate distress at the seemingly snap 'NO' votes posters cast based on what from your POV, seem to be one dimensional and arbitrary items in the Ta being negotiated.
You may not harbor any distrust, dislike, or perceptions of having been manipulated, deceived, taken advantage of, or simply screwed three ways from Sunday by management........ but that doesn't mean the other 11,999 pilots on this property don't.
I'm guessing at least 68% of the pilots in this group have another NO as a default vote, and are of the mind of having to be thoroughly convinced by the terms of the new TA, that management is sincere in the least of their assertions regarding the value of this pilot group.
We ratify or reject our CBAs in identical fashion. One vote at a time.
05-26-2016 | 08:04 AM
#203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
Well let me 'splain it then.....
You articulate distress at the seemingly snap 'NO' votes posters cast based on what from your POV, seem to be one dimensional and arbitrary items in the Ta being negotiated.
You may not harbor any distrust, dislike, or perceptions of having been manipulated, deceived, taken advantage of, or simply screwed three ways from Sunday by management........ but that doesn't mean the other 11,999 pilots on this property don't.
I'm guessing at least 68% of the pilots in this group have another NO as a default vote, and are of the mind of having to be thoroughly convinced by the terms of the new TA, that management is sincere in the least of their assertions regarding the value of this pilot group.
We ratify or reject our CBAs in identical fashion. One vote at a time.
You articulate distress at the seemingly snap 'NO' votes posters cast based on what from your POV, seem to be one dimensional and arbitrary items in the Ta being negotiated.
You may not harbor any distrust, dislike, or perceptions of having been manipulated, deceived, taken advantage of, or simply screwed three ways from Sunday by management........ but that doesn't mean the other 11,999 pilots on this property don't.
I'm guessing at least 68% of the pilots in this group have another NO as a default vote, and are of the mind of having to be thoroughly convinced by the terms of the new TA, that management is sincere in the least of their assertions regarding the value of this pilot group.
We ratify or reject our CBAs in identical fashion. One vote at a time.
05-26-2016 | 08:10 AM
#204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
So who is a dead-zoner? I am 52 with 17 years at DAL. I have less than 13 years left - am I a dead-zoner? I eagerly look forward to buying FOs beers when I upgrade.
I don't understand your argument - have not newly hired Pilots always benefitted from the steadfastness of those who went before them?
OBTW - I don't disagree with you about the TVM but the last TA was not even close.
Scoop
I don't understand your argument - have not newly hired Pilots always benefitted from the steadfastness of those who went before them?
OBTW - I don't disagree with you about the TVM but the last TA was not even close.
Scoop
I am glad you agree re:TVM, and I agree that the TA wasn't even close. But realize that the gap continues to widen.
05-26-2016 | 08:24 AM
#205
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,253
Likes: 96
From: DAL 330
I guess the definition of "deadzoner" would be based on how much retirement you lost in the BK and whether or not you can make that back up in the time you have remaining. I would venture to guess that with each passing day there are more added to that list.
I am glad you agree re:TVM, and I agree that the TA wasn't even close. But realize that the gap continues to widen.
I am glad you agree re:TVM, and I agree that the TA wasn't even close. But realize that the gap continues to widen.
I think that is a pretty good definition.
.Scoop
05-26-2016 | 09:14 AM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 5,816
Likes: 5
From: retired 767(dl)
I guess the definition of "deadzoner" would be based on how much retirement you lost in the BK and whether or not you can make that back up in the time you have remaining. I would venture to guess that with each passing day there are more added to that list.
I am glad you agree re:TVM, and I agree that the TA wasn't even close. But realize that the gap continues to widen.
I am glad you agree re:TVM, and I agree that the TA wasn't even close. But realize that the gap continues to widen.
05-26-2016 | 09:55 AM
#208
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 852
Likes: 1
[QUOTE=JamesBond;2135570]ISo the guys newly hired, and those yet to be hired are going to reap the benefits of our steadfastedness while many of us are under the wheels of the bus.
What do you mean "our" steadfastness? From what you've written I don't see any "steadfastness" coming from you....
What do you mean "our" steadfastness? From what you've written I don't see any "steadfastness" coming from you....
05-26-2016 | 10:10 AM
#209
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 7,292
Likes: 0
From: A350 Both
[QUOTE=Viking busdvr;2135642]
blah blah blah
ISo the guys newly hired, and those yet to be hired are going to reap the benefits of our steadfastedness while many of us are under the wheels of the bus.
What do you mean "our" steadfastness? From what you've written I don't see any "steadfastness" coming from you....
What do you mean "our" steadfastness? From what you've written I don't see any "steadfastness" coming from you....
05-26-2016 | 10:19 AM
#210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,044
Likes: 3
From: Lowest Pay I Could Find
I guess the definition of "deadzoner" would be based on how much retirement you lost in the BK and whether or not you can make that back up in the time you have remaining. I would venture to guess that with each passing day there are more added to that list.
I am glad you agree re:TVM, and I agree that the TA wasn't even close. But realize that the gap continues to widen.
I am glad you agree re:TVM, and I agree that the TA wasn't even close. But realize that the gap continues to widen.
And put that in the next pwa so you don't even have to think about it.
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