From the peanut gallery...

If code share allows SWA to use Volaris and other foreign entities in big numbers for international or regional feeders domestically, SWA pilots are going to get to develop a new kind of hate. Watching cities or flights go to code share doesn't do much more morale or teamwork. We have a very limited carve out allowed at FedEx for 4 months a year for extra flying by contractors. This year they got the some of the most senior trips. Even though "its good business" and its contractual, the hate and angst that creates is a sight to behold.

Second thought....if they use retro as another chance to dingle anyone from the Airtran merger/buyout, they are just watering weeds in the garden. I know Delta guys have some legitimate beefs about their current contract and former leadership at ALPA, but you have to also admit Delta did some things very well. The NWA merger was a model of an effective blending of pilot groups. I know from the inside there are probably still some divisions, but compared to other places and how it could have gone it seemed to work pretty well. Getting everyone to drink out of the same well going forward isn't easy. Continually drawing a line between Air Tran and SWA pilots is only going to cause more trouble down the road.

I predict the initial pay raise and B plan will elate the SWA pilot group. I also predict slowing expansion, code share, and the fact SWA really isn't a LCC anymore is going to really disgruntle the FOs who are looking at 10 more years before they can upgrade. Code sharing and bigger jets won't help them at all.

 

The section 1 code share stuff is about the only thing that could tank this AIP in my opinion.
Allegedly, this is going to be used for non trans border near international flying. If it exceeds certain thresholds, SWA will have to discontinue or fly the route themselves. There was a lot of heartburn with the way the language was worded in TA1, and our negotiators and BOD know that. If the language isn't tight and doesn't protect jobs, it won't pass. I firmly believe our BOD will send it back to the table to be reworked. I think we have all seen in the last 4 years just how much trust this pilot group still has with our management team. It isn't Herb's airline anymore.

 

I was here but admittedly very new and wasn't really sure how that whole process worked.
I don't know what the final outcome will be so I will just wait and see like everyone else.

 

Just from a pay perspective, I don't consider the ER a wide body position. There's a 20/hour difference for fo's and a 30/hour difference for captains between the er and the 765. Jmho.,, Papa

 

For several years on these boards, the cry was very loud about how much more SWA pilots made than ours. SWA was the gold standard. The funny thing was that they rarely if ever hit a grand slam. A bunch of singles and doubles and they led the league. We never want to do that though. We like the long ball. Problem is that you strike out a lot swinging for the fence.

 

Do you have friends at SWA? Have you ever seen the math on money earned per day flown? I have, blows our NB math away. The lack of B plan has been fixed, and their vacation/trips touching humbles our plan. Their medical blows ours away, and they have a min day, not as important for our international folks, yyuuggee for our NB folks. Nice singles and doubles they've strung together.

 

Our leverage is in a MEC that can walk in and say "this is the Delta premium that fits right in the zone of "reasonableness" (whatever that means), meets the needs of the Delta pilots, AND we're willing as a body to stand behind it, and tell the pilots we support it".

Selling lasting labor peace = high price.

Absent that, you get into: "...well, everyone else has gotten theirs done, so we need more, but we'll keep fighting over who is "strong" and "weak", and even if you give us what we're asking, which is outside the zone, but it sure would be nice, and if you really, really dig deep, and try to get us that number... we still will fight among ourselves, and fight over pro-con papers, and some of us are already lining up to say it wasn't enough."

Not offering any clarity = low price.

That's where leverage is, IMO: a MEC that can speak for the pilots, and make decisions.

 

That's the problem Sink; how does the TA that might come soon compare to the one that was soundly defeated last summer? How does it compare to the industry, that has done nothing but improve since our vote? When we see the TA, we'll know the answers to these questions, and the members will take care of the rest.

 

Agree 100% on the part in bold.

Sounds like even the company proposal (and I'm NOT endorsing it) puts us in a pretty good spot vs. the industry, depending on how much we credit PS. I don't think we're going to be at the industry max payrates PLUS a premium that can total 25% or more, but I think we can end up either at the top with some PS modifications, or near the top in payrates, plus a substantial premium with an untouched PS.

But I notice we're mostly discussing this as if it was a philosophical point. We could have charts and data. I'd love for the union to put up a few on where the industry is, instead of having faith-based discussions.

 

I agree, the PS final product will be huge. Not flying with too many folks that are willing to see that change at all. I'm looking forward to seeing the comparisons as well. Have to go now, off to hear from JM, the NC and my reps. Should be interesting.