Swa aip
08-29-2016 | 04:19 PM
#32
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How much is their PS, anyway?
08-29-2016 | 04:19 PM
#33
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,265
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From: DAL 330
It helps us because their rates - along with every other airline in our peer set has rates that are much greater than ours.
It doesn't matter that they took 3 or 4 years to get the rates - we are now lagging the industry. It is much easier for us to get a big bump since we are lagging vice when the TA was defeated and our rates were more toward the top. But I assume you know this.
Do you actually want a large raise? Or would rather us fail miserably so guys can see "See - we should have passed the last TA" because that is exactly how your posts are coming across.
The last TA is history yet you continue to go around implying what fools 65% of the Delta Pilots are. How do you see the talking down of UPS and or the Southwests deals as helping us any?
Scoop
08-29-2016 | 04:20 PM
#34
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[QUOTE=TriStar_drvr;2191104]To clarify, SWA Uses a Trip for Pay (TFP) as the unit for pay. Current 12 year captain is $189.78 per TFP. The union uses a conversion factor of 1.149 to convert this to an hourly wage. Thus current hourly rate equivalent is $218.06 and the Agreement rate effective Oct 1 would be $250.76
It's certainly a big step up for SWA but I don't see it providing us much leverage. The companies current table position puts our 737 rate at 254 an hour now and 261.50 on 1 Jan with a 16DC. Add in a profit sharing program that will pay at least 10% more and you are talking about at least 18% more then SW on I Jan. I had hopes they might come in more toward 265 an hour.
The one thing it does do is keep SWA costs more inline with ours which might give management a little more wiggle room to get a deal done.
It's certainly a big step up for SWA but I don't see it providing us much leverage. The companies current table position puts our 737 rate at 254 an hour now and 261.50 on 1 Jan with a 16DC. Add in a profit sharing program that will pay at least 10% more and you are talking about at least 18% more then SW on I Jan. I had hopes they might come in more toward 265 an hour.
The one thing it does do is keep SWA costs more inline with ours which might give management a little more wiggle room to get a deal done.
08-29-2016 | 04:22 PM
#35
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,265
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From: DAL 330
If they all achieved these raises with minimal or no concessions your argument for us making concessions would be what exactly?
Yes our proposed rates were similar but at what cost to the rest of the contract?
Scoop
08-29-2016 | 04:25 PM
#36
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Likes: 0
It helps us because their rates - along with every other airline in our peer set has rates that are much greater than ours.
It doesn't matter that they took 3 or 4 years to get the rates - we are now lagging the industry. It is much easier for us to get a big bump since we are lagging vice when the TA was defeated and our rates were more toward the top. But I assume you know this.
Do you actually want a large raise? Or would rather us fail miserably so guys can see "See - we should have passed the last TA" because that is exactly how your posts are coming across.
The last TA is history yet you continue to go around implying what fools 65% of the Delta Pilots are. How do you see the talking down of UPS and or the Southwests deals as helping us any?
Scoop
It doesn't matter that they took 3 or 4 years to get the rates - we are now lagging the industry. It is much easier for us to get a big bump since we are lagging vice when the TA was defeated and our rates were more toward the top. But I assume you know this.
Do you actually want a large raise? Or would rather us fail miserably so guys can see "See - we should have passed the last TA" because that is exactly how your posts are coming across.
The last TA is history yet you continue to go around implying what fools 65% of the Delta Pilots are. How do you see the talking down of UPS and or the Southwests deals as helping us any?
Scoop
Nobody wants a raise <= TA1
It's always possible we'll end up with <=TA1 if we execute poorly
How do you see the talking up or down of any other contract helping or hurting us? Don't the facts suffice?
08-29-2016 | 04:26 PM
#37
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08-29-2016 | 04:27 PM
#38
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Joined: Nov 2011
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It's certainly a big step up for SWA but I don't see it providing us much leverage. The companies current table position puts our 737 rate at 254 an hour now and 261.50 on 1 Jan with a 16DC. Add in a profit sharing program that will pay at least 10% more and you are talking about at least 18% more then SW on I Jan. I had hopes they might come in more toward 265 an hour.
The one thing it does do is keep SWA costs more inline with ours which might give management a little more wiggle room to get a deal done.
The one thing it does do is keep SWA costs more inline with ours which might give management a little more wiggle room to get a deal done.
08-29-2016 | 04:28 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 6,218
Likes: 273
It helps us because their rates - along with every other airline in our peer set has rates that are much greater than ours.
It doesn't matter that they took 3 or 4 years to get the rates - we are now lagging the industry. It is much easier for us to get a big bump since we are lagging vice when the TA was defeated and our rates were more toward the top. But I assume you know this.
Do you actually want a large raise? Or would rather us fail miserably so guys can see "See - we should have passed the last TA" because that is exactly how your posts are coming across.
The last TA is history yet you continue to go around implying what fools 65% of the Delta Pilots are. How do you see the talking down of UPS and or the Southwests deals as helping us any?
Scoop
It doesn't matter that they took 3 or 4 years to get the rates - we are now lagging the industry. It is much easier for us to get a big bump since we are lagging vice when the TA was defeated and our rates were more toward the top. But I assume you know this.
Do you actually want a large raise? Or would rather us fail miserably so guys can see "See - we should have passed the last TA" because that is exactly how your posts are coming across.
The last TA is history yet you continue to go around implying what fools 65% of the Delta Pilots are. How do you see the talking down of UPS and or the Southwests deals as helping us any?
Scoop
08-29-2016 | 04:29 PM
#40
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,265
Likes: 112
From: DAL 330
[QUOTE=sailingfun;2191141]
So in the recent past we couldn't get a big raise because we were already leading the industry - I repeat that leading the industry.
Now that we are lagging the industry we still have no leverage because we would like rates just a little bit higher than what less profitable airlines already achieved. Not exactly the same standard that DALPA was touting for years.
How about this - There is a world-wide Pilot shortage developing, the world wide and domestic market for Pilots is increasing and appears to only be accelerating and yet all you see are headwinds and cloudy days ahead - got it.
Scoop
To clarify, SWA Uses a Trip for Pay (TFP) as the unit for pay. Current 12 year captain is $189.78 per TFP. The union uses a conversion factor of 1.149 to convert this to an hourly wage. Thus current hourly rate equivalent is $218.06 and the Agreement rate effective Oct 1 would be $250.76
It's certainly a big step up for SWA but I don't see it providing us much leverage. The companies current table position puts our 737 rate at 254 an hour now and 261.50 on 1 Jan with a 16DC. Add in a profit sharing program that will pay at least 10% more and you are talking about at least 18% more then SW on I Jan. I had hopes they might come in more toward 265 an hour.
The one thing it does do is keep SWA costs more inline with ours which might give management a little more wiggle room to get a deal done.
It's certainly a big step up for SWA but I don't see it providing us much leverage. The companies current table position puts our 737 rate at 254 an hour now and 261.50 on 1 Jan with a 16DC. Add in a profit sharing program that will pay at least 10% more and you are talking about at least 18% more then SW on I Jan. I had hopes they might come in more toward 265 an hour.
The one thing it does do is keep SWA costs more inline with ours which might give management a little more wiggle room to get a deal done.
So in the recent past we couldn't get a big raise because we were already leading the industry - I repeat that leading the industry.
Now that we are lagging the industry we still have no leverage because we would like rates just a little bit higher than what less profitable airlines already achieved. Not exactly the same standard that DALPA was touting for years.
How about this - There is a world-wide Pilot shortage developing, the world wide and domestic market for Pilots is increasing and appears to only be accelerating and yet all you see are headwinds and cloudy days ahead - got it.
Scoop
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