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10-11-2016 | 11:41 AM

#121

Sink r8

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Quote:

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Does that include Great Britain?

And 40% isn't 1/3.

345/(345+509) is how I figured. Our share of the market, if we want to make population the issue.

I'm not married to this argument. What do you suggest?

10-11-2016 | 11:49 AM

#122

trustbutverify

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

345/(345+509) is how I figured. Our share of the market, if we want to make population the issue.

I'm not married to this argument. What do you suggest?

I've already said 50% is a good number, so current C2012 balance (or better, though I know that won't happen) and improved enforcement language along with the AIP change in measurement period and dropping cure period.

10-11-2016 | 11:52 AM

#123

Dharma

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Quote:

Originally Posted by trustbutverify

Because we still live under C2012. If we pass this AIP into a TA, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the new Europe flying disappears.

Those events you mention affect all JV partners. So why are we always the ones to volunteer to take it in the shorts?

Have we taken it in the shorts? Can you back that up with international ASMs or Block Hour facts? How much have we shrunk? Just go back to the merger. Getting that data shouldn't be too hard.

10-11-2016 | 01:14 PM

#124

BtoA

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From: Moving left

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

Well, if they keep the 50-seaters around, the net size of DCI doesn't shrink, and we increase above our ratios without downside protection, it will prove to be a mistake, sure.

The whole premise for not trading a large number of 50-seaters for a much smaller number if 76-seaters (subject to seat remival in case if furlough) was that the 50-seaters were going away anyway, and the company wants to order 76-seaters badly enough to have us flying them. Let's see if one or both things happen before we log this as a win.

With all due respect, it is very obvious that you do not understand the importance of our scope protections. Please, folks, understand why scope protections matter. The entire 2000s should give you some idea.

10-11-2016 | 01:18 PM

#125

BtoA

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From: Moving left

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sink r8

These are European carriers. The EU population is 509 million. This isn't a deal for flying to France, Italy, and Holland.

Using population, we should get ~40% of the flying.

Seems like a self-defeating argument.

Yet we have a contract requiring around 50%. I guess any contractual gain we have that you think is too much in our favor should just be given away?

10-11-2016 | 02:41 PM

#126

Sink r8

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BtoA

Yet we have a contract requiring around 50%. I guess any contractual gain we have that you think is too much in our favor should just be given away?

I didn't negotiate this TA. Or the last one. I'm just discussing what's in it. Seems like we made trades in the cure period and block hours against the 50%, not just give away the 50%. They can get to 50% by pulling OAL flying, if you want.

Then what?

10-11-2016 | 02:51 PM

#127

Sink r8

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BtoA

I appreciate the tone. I agree that we don't understand RJ scope the same way. I though we would have better ratios, less DCI, but we got no improvements in that section.

10-11-2016 | 03:52 PM

#128

Seaslap8

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bucking bar

then ken watts could help you to understand that if the company violates our scope, under this ta, or under c2012, (or under the student counsel the dpa would set up to represent us) our bargaining agent would file a grievance which, as a minor dispute, would receive expedited handling while both sides are required to operate under the status quo. The bargaining agent could seek a variety of remedies from injunctive relief to compensatory and punitive damages.

Thank you for serving your pilots for free. I can only imagine the difficulty of sitting across the table from nwa management, regardless of the forum.

ka......boom!!!!!!!!!

10-11-2016 | 04:12 PM

#129

Seaslap8

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Quote:

Originally Posted by BobZ

if not for all the 'dis-unity'......you already would have had a ta, done and over.

and right about now, would be standing with your d**k in your hand......wondering how we got screwed over so badly.

Sort of. This TA is undoubtedly significantly better, but so is the surrounding landscape a year + later, is it not?...and had that one passed, how long before openers for the next one?

10-11-2016 | 04:18 PM

#130

Denny Crane

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From: Kickin’ Back

I'm not adverse to granting the company JV relief for an overall wide body plus 757 international block hour min. I do think that block hour minimum should be closer to what we are actually flying. Sounds like 688,000 is our current block hour amount. I think the min should be 675,000 possibly 680,000. If more flexibility is needed, divide the block hour min into quarters and have min hours per quarter.

Denny