Originally Posted by Margaritaville

Yeah, we once said similar at Comair. If you guys try to go with unreasonable expectations DAL and DALPA will squash you like a bug too. I predict the BEST you'll get is a staple with fences. Anything more than that would be a windfall. Seniority over Delta newhires? You're telling me DALPA is going to allow you guys to leapfrog their newhires already on property? How far back? A month? A year? 5 years? They just had dudes hired in January 2022 get CA awards. You gonna steal those seats too? Dream on.



Exactly. Uppity RJ pilots never win. Ask me how I know.



You may get a staple with fences but you'll never get "advanced seniority". That battle was lost almost 20 years ago. We even sued ALPA for conflict of interest and got nothing.



Comair was shut down because the MEC repeatedly thumbed their noses at Delta and ALPA. Everyone supported us in the strike except Delta management. They took it personally and never got over it. That lead to the "portfolio concept" still holding DCI down today. Never again let any one subcontractor control too much flying and overlap everything. Then 9/11 happened. Comair and ASA grew like gangbusters and suddenly we were flying CR2s between Delta hubs and to major cities. Darkened the sky with RJs. Guess what? We RJ pilots got a fat head and decided we were entitled to things. Wanted unlimited scope. Mergers with mainline as a full DOH integration. Sued ALPA to get that. Then when Delta furloughed and DALPA came hat in hand to ask for help getting their furloughs hired at Comair we tried to take them hostage for scope relief. That was really the beginning of the end because DAL and DALPA now hated us. Plus we were a lot more expensive than the new entrants like Freedom, Republic, and HoJet. Then later we had to "compete" with Pinnacle. I seem to recall you guys taking some major concessions that big time undercut us after the bankruptcies. Eventually they shut us down, a thousand pilots on the street and blackballed from Delta. Most of us ended up at LCCs or 2nd tier freight. A few have trickled to FDX, UPS or other mainlines many years later.

Is that what you guys want? You better learn from history so you don't repeat it. Best thing you can do as you approach DALPA and DAL is know your place in the world. Don't let this temporary RJ pilot shortage make you think you have more leverage than you do. That's the same mistake we made.

Old guy out.

Originally Posted by PilotBases

Why didn’t you flow, then you wouldn’t have to give a crap about this stuff?

Originally Posted by prex8390

The amount of pilots here that if they took the
opportunity years ago to move on to NWA or DL would probably be holding weekends off in the left seat of a 320 or 737 in MSP and DTW. Instead they’re still at 9E whining about crumbs, wondering why Delta doesn’t pay them mainline wages and wondering why so many younger pilots are abandoning the quick and dirty fix of an industry to post 9/11 issues. The younger folks aren’t the ones who decided to hang their hat at a regional and accept the B wage lifestyle.

Originally Posted by Flogger

Your lens is way too young. The current level of opportunity is blurring your vision.

Most did not decide to "hang their hat" in the minor leagues. There is a long list of reasons why pilots got stuck at the regionals. Some, their own fault. Some, beyond their control. Some are just industry timing.

Originally Posted by theUpsideDown

Yeah, to echo. first Mesaba flow was to NWA who was still trying to figure out how to furlough over the winter "like the good old days" and new hire pay was 25 an hour (but you did get health benefits, unlike Contiental). The guys that flowed were the guys that could afford it. I do know the top 100 guys that were no voters were almost to a man, guys who started young but their kids were about to goto college. Scary time.
Second batch of flows were just mesaba guys, something like 90% of them took it. They arent at edv to point at and laugh.

Ssp came along, a lot of guys did their math off delta earning (and perhaps a misunderstanding of what reserve is like) and if they had more than 5 years they would have done fine. Then delta got that big pay jump, so bad math.

What the younger pilots here need to understand is 16 days off and low six figures is great money for most americans. Pilots have this weird and stupid mindset where thats bad money. A lot of pilots built their lives here and have good retiremnts because of it. Dont get real judgy about guys who didnt flow, you sound like a tool.

Also, yeah, i like money. Thats why i left years ago. If i were all of you id bail for united as quick as i could or whoever would hire me.Alright. Thats it for grandpas talk. Get back to work making my profit sharing check.

Originally Posted by PilotBases

It’s not judging guys who didn’t flow, it’s judging guys who didn’t flow and complain they are stuck now, want more, etc.

They made their choice to not flow, more power to them, now they want a second bite because hire has gone gangbusters and those who went first up are now going to be Airbus captains in every base but SLC/MSP.

Meanwhile post merger guys got DGI yanked right prior to interview and sent to the back of the line for flow, while guys who’ve had many shots, it’s still not enough. I have buddies who have lost literally thousands of seniority numbers.

Originally Posted by Flogger

For most who got "stuck" at a regional, there never was a "flow". Some could have made the jump, but didn't. For most who got stuck, it was out of their control...which included a bad personality which simply didn't interview well.... and many other reasons, from PRIA events to DUIs.