View Poll Results: When will Endeavor close its doors?
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 175. You may not vote on this poll
When will Endeavor wind down the operation?
11-24-2014, 02:31 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 389
That bonus is not just for people on property today. If you get hired tomorrow you will get bonus money. This is something for new hires to consider. If new hires show up in sufficient number upgrades will start. When upgrades start life will get better for all. Attrition off the top won't just be to Delta. There are other airlines hiring like United and American.
11-24-2014, 03:53 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Home with my family playing with my daughter as much as possible
Posts: 591
Originally Posted by ShyGuy
If they wanted to make Endeavor a great place to work they would offer contractual gains, for example, offer the JCBA back. They would also have to have a fleet plant that has growth to attract newhire pilots to come to Endeavor. Lets face it, a shrinking fleet with no new planes is not a recipe for success that any regional newhire would want when you consider that many others like PSA/Compass/TSA are getting lots of planes and have movement.
What's unique about this payment is that it is indifferent for longevity or seat. Anyone who stays until [insert date] is given a fixed amount of money. This isn't something to make the company a great place to work, this is an equivalent to a stop-loss program to mitigate attrition while the fleet is parked. You have to see it for what it is. Based on the dates listed, it's very likely the entire -200 fleet is parked by the first payout date (Sept '15). Then the next two dates are a stop-loss as the -900s are transferred elsewhere and unfortunately looks likely that Endeavor shuts down by 2016.
Follow this an example. Say you are working at 9E as a 7 year FO. Today they announce that the last Endeavor flight is Sept 29, 2015. All the -200s will be parked in Arizona and the -900s are distributed to TSA, PSA, Compass, and Skywest. By 09/2015, you won't have a job. Now if that is announced today, are you really going to stick around until then? Of course not. Nearly all FOs will bail to the first job offer available, and many will choose to go to PSA and TSA for the quick upgrade. But from 9E's perspective, that's a worse case scenario because now they have jets and a flight schedule for 10 more months that simply cannot be manned. The way to staff all the way to shutdown is to offer severance and bonus payouts as a method of enticing pilots to stick until the end. Comair did this and flew their schedule until Sept 29, 2012. You have to see it for what it is. I don't think Endeavor will be fully shut down by Sept '15 but based on the 2-year bonus program, the first payment of 09/30/2015 sounds like it will coincide with the parking of the entire -200 fleet, the last of which will leave by 09/29/2015.
I don't wish ill on any airline. Pilots are human and we all have wives/kids to take care of and provide for. A shut down hurts everyone. Hopefully 2015 turns out to be a great year for hiring at every legacy and LCC carrier. Oil is down, so going into 1st quarter looks good.
What's unique about this payment is that it is indifferent for longevity or seat. Anyone who stays until [insert date] is given a fixed amount of money. This isn't something to make the company a great place to work, this is an equivalent to a stop-loss program to mitigate attrition while the fleet is parked. You have to see it for what it is. Based on the dates listed, it's very likely the entire -200 fleet is parked by the first payout date (Sept '15). Then the next two dates are a stop-loss as the -900s are transferred elsewhere and unfortunately looks likely that Endeavor shuts down by 2016.
Follow this an example. Say you are working at 9E as a 7 year FO. Today they announce that the last Endeavor flight is Sept 29, 2015. All the -200s will be parked in Arizona and the -900s are distributed to TSA, PSA, Compass, and Skywest. By 09/2015, you won't have a job. Now if that is announced today, are you really going to stick around until then? Of course not. Nearly all FOs will bail to the first job offer available, and many will choose to go to PSA and TSA for the quick upgrade. But from 9E's perspective, that's a worse case scenario because now they have jets and a flight schedule for 10 more months that simply cannot be manned. The way to staff all the way to shutdown is to offer severance and bonus payouts as a method of enticing pilots to stick until the end. Comair did this and flew their schedule until Sept 29, 2012. You have to see it for what it is. I don't think Endeavor will be fully shut down by Sept '15 but based on the 2-year bonus program, the first payment of 09/30/2015 sounds like it will coincide with the parking of the entire -200 fleet, the last of which will leave by 09/29/2015.
I don't wish ill on any airline. Pilots are human and we all have wives/kids to take care of and provide for. A shut down hurts everyone. Hopefully 2015 turns out to be a great year for hiring at every legacy and LCC carrier. Oil is down, so going into 1st quarter looks good.
11-24-2014, 05:46 AM
#23
Bracing for Fallacies
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: In favor of good things, not in favor of bad things
Posts: 3,543
Originally Posted by vilcas
That bonus is not just for people on property today. If you get hired tomorrow you will get bonus money. This is something for new hires to consider. If new hires show up in sufficient number upgrades will start. When upgrades start life will get better for all. Attrition off the top won't just be to Delta. There are other airlines hiring like United and American.
Though, I do agree with Shy guy and many others that the pre BK contract ought to be restored, I think beeotching that the SSP isn't generous enough angers Delta pilots and Delta management (since word gets around). Thus burning potential good will to bring on more Endeavor pilots through contractual improvements to the SSP. There are/were many things to be mad about, but for the people staying at Endeavor I don't think complaining is gonna sweeten the deals offered.
11-24-2014, 07:18 AM
#24
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
Originally Posted by vilcas
That bonus is not just for people on property today. If you get hired tomorrow you will get bonus money. This is something for new hires to consider. If new hires show up in sufficient number upgrades will start. When upgrades start life will get better for all. Attrition off the top won't just be to Delta. There are other airlines hiring like United and American.
11-24-2014, 07:32 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Assistant Greens Keeper
Posts: 1,011
Originally Posted by vilcas
That bonus is not just for people on property today. If you get hired tomorrow you will get bonus money. This is something for new hires to consider. If new hires show up in sufficient number upgrades will start. When upgrades start life will get better for all. Attrition off the top won't just be to Delta. There are other airlines hiring like United and American.
11-24-2014, 07:43 AM
#26
Dumb Pilot
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Position: Broke
Posts: 784
Originally Posted by vilcas
That bonus is not just for people on property today. If you get hired tomorrow you will get bonus money. This is something for new hires to consider. If new hires show up in sufficient number upgrades will start. When upgrades start life will get better for all. Attrition off the top won't just be to Delta. There are other airlines hiring like United and American.
11-24-2014, 09:05 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 318
Assuming a stagnant seniority list a shrinking fleet for sure means no upgrades. However, it is more complicated than that. Theoretically, if a higher percentage of captains attrition out of here compared to FOs you could have upgrades and this is what the company was hoping for. However, the reality as of late the attrition has been heavy from the right seat in comparison to the left...which if it continues means continued downgrades.
11-24-2014, 09:22 AM
#28
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: CRJ - Hell Hole
Posts: 236
Which if continued, will cause an inability to staff the airline, means cancelled flights.
If the mass exodus continues further, then the airline will be forced to either shrink to less than 81 900's or cease to exist.
With the legacies and tier 2 airlines and cargo carriers all increasing hiring more and more each month, there simply won't be any pilots left to fly the fleet!
It's a lose-lose situation for everyone on property. Endeavor is taking on water like the titanic. Better jump into a life raft NOW because the life rafts have limited space and releasing the ropes from the mothership as we speak.
If the mass exodus continues further, then the airline will be forced to either shrink to less than 81 900's or cease to exist.
With the legacies and tier 2 airlines and cargo carriers all increasing hiring more and more each month, there simply won't be any pilots left to fly the fleet!
It's a lose-lose situation for everyone on property. Endeavor is taking on water like the titanic. Better jump into a life raft NOW because the life rafts have limited space and releasing the ropes from the mothership as we speak.
11-24-2014, 09:31 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,735
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
Parking planes does not = upgrades
11-24-2014, 09:51 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Posts: 318
I don't think Delta is done pulling rabbits out of hats for this place. They are running out of rabbits though. I think the next rabbit will come when we get close to the 81 plane end state (mid 2015). If there is no rabbit pulled...then we are dead.
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