Endeavor retention package
01-30-2015, 07:50 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,898
Originally Posted by Past V1
While y'all argue, this 8 year FO just left 9E. What everyone fails to realize is yes, money is an important factor, but what is more important is stability. 9E has NO stability what so ever. This lead to my ultimate decision to leave the company. What would have made me stay...
1. Stop treating Captain's as if they are special and paying them Captain pay to do the same job I'm doing.
2. Pay rates are far more stable than bonuses. Pay rates will make me feel that you value me more as an employee than just a number.
3. A solid business plan that shows growth rather than reductions. 9E's business plan has death written all over it especially with a third choice CEO at the helm.
4. The Delta SSP language has too many holes as far as once the last interview (from when it was signed and who was on property) is completed, what will happen to the program. I happen to believe it will be done.
5. Wholly owned scares me. We have no contract with Delta that specifically states anything about our flying. Just some union fluff, but not company to company.
6. No stability in base movement. First half of the year we were moving to New York, then BOOM it stops and now moving people to MSP. People can't have families moving all over the place like that. But wholly owned...
These are just a few reasons why I chose to leave. I don't wish anything bad on my friends at 9E. I hope it turns out ok. But it was too risky and I don't like gambling.
I'm still involved in aviation and now make more than most regional captains at all carriers. I won't disclose who I'm working for. (Personal reasons). But there are so many other careers other than flying for airlines that can use your flying skills. Just do your research.
I wish y'all the best...and I hope my input will help you as a pilot group turn things around or give you insight on why many FO's are leaving.
1. Stop treating Captain's as if they are special and paying them Captain pay to do the same job I'm doing.
2. Pay rates are far more stable than bonuses. Pay rates will make me feel that you value me more as an employee than just a number.
3. A solid business plan that shows growth rather than reductions. 9E's business plan has death written all over it especially with a third choice CEO at the helm.
4. The Delta SSP language has too many holes as far as once the last interview (from when it was signed and who was on property) is completed, what will happen to the program. I happen to believe it will be done.
5. Wholly owned scares me. We have no contract with Delta that specifically states anything about our flying. Just some union fluff, but not company to company.
6. No stability in base movement. First half of the year we were moving to New York, then BOOM it stops and now moving people to MSP. People can't have families moving all over the place like that. But wholly owned...
These are just a few reasons why I chose to leave. I don't wish anything bad on my friends at 9E. I hope it turns out ok. But it was too risky and I don't like gambling.
I'm still involved in aviation and now make more than most regional captains at all carriers. I won't disclose who I'm working for. (Personal reasons). But there are so many other careers other than flying for airlines that can use your flying skills. Just do your research.
I wish y'all the best...and I hope my input will help you as a pilot group turn things around or give you insight on why many FO's are leaving.
01-30-2015, 08:05 AM
#82
Property of Scheduling
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: Bus driver
Posts: 2,524
Originally Posted by FlyingOkra
Never thought of this. Which list do the New Hires even go under in relation to the Botched Award? = Mind Blown
01-30-2015, 08:07 AM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Posts: 2,236
Originally Posted by Captain Tony
ASA is replacing worn out EV -200s with newer, recently parked 9E -200s as we speak. Don't plan on seeing them come back.
The only -200 operators for DL are SkyWest Airlines, ASA, and Endeavor. ASA and SkyWest have a CPA which locks the planes in for at least 5 more years, the September rate reset notwithstanding. Endeavor has no CPA and therefore is the only one that can lose airplanes without penalty. Delta will absolutely keep taking -200s from Endeavor, if for no other reason, to comply with scope. Management is lying to 9E pilots and desperately telling them anything just to get them to stay until DAL closes the doors after the next rate reset, and they're no longer needed. Comair II.
Get back to me at this time next year, and we'll see who was right.
The only -200 operators for DL are SkyWest Airlines, ASA, and Endeavor. ASA and SkyWest have a CPA which locks the planes in for at least 5 more years, the September rate reset notwithstanding. Endeavor has no CPA and therefore is the only one that can lose airplanes without penalty. Delta will absolutely keep taking -200s from Endeavor, if for no other reason, to comply with scope. Management is lying to 9E pilots and desperately telling them anything just to get them to stay until DAL closes the doors after the next rate reset, and they're no longer needed. Comair II.
Get back to me at this time next year, and we'll see who was right.
01-30-2015, 08:39 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2014
Position: CR9 CA, FT Minivan Driver
Posts: 452
Originally Posted by Nantonaku
You want us to get back to you like we got back to you after getting a higher non-rev and jumpseat priority which you said would not happen? You were wrong then and are probably wrong here again. First, management never promised 200's, despite what other people are predicting. So there is no being strung along by management. There is only the promise of 81 900's for 7 years and currently everything points to Delta honoring that commitment. Next, everything about your above post is blown out of the water by Delta shopping around 200's to Air Wisconsin.
01-30-2015, 06:43 PM
#87
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: CRJ
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by Bartok
Lol
I love how everyone is stuck on the number of years it took to upgrade yesterday.
Has nothing to do with tomorrow.
I love how everyone is stuck on the number of years it took to upgrade yesterday.
Has nothing to do with tomorrow.
01-30-2015, 06:44 PM
#88
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
Originally Posted by Bartok
Lol
I love how everyone is stuck on the number of years it took to upgrade yesterday.
Has nothing to do with tomorrow.
I love how everyone is stuck on the number of years it took to upgrade yesterday.
Has nothing to do with tomorrow.
The answer = still greater than 8 years for him bud.
Easy for you as a 13+ year Captain that most likely upgraded in less than 2 years.
Your yesterday is their today, tomorrow and the next day until they finally get into that left seat.
01-30-2015, 06:55 PM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by MIKEE
Okay, I will bite. How many of those guys have upgraded? How many were downgraded and waiting to upgrade again? What is the average seniority of an Endeavor First Officer? If they upgraded 30 a month, how long woukd it take to absorb the guys already on property? We are talking about now, not yesterday.
Seniority list a month ago had 762 first officers. Probably closer to 750 now. 30 upgrades a month would take 25 months to purge the entire list. That doesn't account for all the inactive guys on the list.
In a few months endeavor will be losing 15-20 guys a month indefinitely to Delta alone.
01-30-2015, 07:07 PM
#90
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2012
Position: B-767 FO
Posts: 554
Originally Posted by PapaMike
Average current seniority is irrelevant.
Seniority list a month ago had 762 first officers. Probably closer to 750 now. 30 upgrades a month would take 25 months to purge the entire list. That doesn't account for all the inactive guys on the list.
In a few months endeavor will be losing 15-20 guys a month indefinitely to Delta alone.
Seniority list a month ago had 762 first officers. Probably closer to 750 now. 30 upgrades a month would take 25 months to purge the entire list. That doesn't account for all the inactive guys on the list.
In a few months endeavor will be losing 15-20 guys a month indefinitely to Delta alone.
You like playing with fictitious numbers?
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