Originally Posted by Smutter

I have for 6 years. I agree with everyone saying won't help. As long as our trips are weak, we need more days of flying to get above mine line value. So let's say trips stay around 15- 18 hrs. 1st trip. 18hrs. 2nd trip. 17.50hrs. 3rd trip 15hrs. 4th trip 18 hrs.comes out to 68.50. what do you need, yep that's right here comes the next 4 day trip. That's how PBS doesn't help.

For those of that don't understand PBS, when bidding, all you're doing is bidding on trips already built. You have to build your line above or equal to min line value. PBS takes away all conflict, so your vacation, training are all put on your schedule before bidding (less days off). You can have vacation in a month and not really have any more days off then a person relative to you on seniority.

We have 0 PBS work rules for PBS. Those that say we will get them, show me where you come up with that, company will not give us a ton of rules to make this good for us and bad for them.

Originally Posted by Inop2

I will give a different view. Envoy has to do everything possible to attract new hire pilots including giving you up to $22,200 within 15 minutes of the first day of class. In this climate they can't get away with anything close to the stated above. The new hire labor environment won't support it.

Originally Posted by minimwage4

Yes you're right that you bid on trips already built but NOT on the hard lines that the company forces you to choose. That's the difference. If you want more days off with less flying available, PBS is a solution. PBS takes so many things into consideration and all the variables not available in paper bidding so that it is more efficient for everyone. More days off and better schedule control as well as a more efficient operation for management. It's particularly good for when the trips are inefficient. Of course there's a grey area anytime you're relying on a computer to make the final calculations so that's why you need good contract language.

Originally Posted by minimwage4

Yes you're right that you bid on trips already built but NOT on the hard lines that the company forces you to choose. That's the difference. If you want more days off with less flying available, PBS is a solution. PBS takes so many things into consideration and all the variables not available in paper bidding so that it is more efficient for everyone. More days off and better schedule control as well as a more efficient operation for management. It's particularly good for when the trips are inefficient. Of course there's a grey area anytime you're relying on a computer to make the final calculations so that's why you need good contract language.

Originally Posted by minimwage4

Yes you're right that you bid on trips already built but NOT on the hard lines that the company forces you to choose. That's the difference. If you want more days off with less flying available, PBS is a solution. PBS takes so many things into consideration and all the variables not available in paper bidding so that it is more efficient for everyone. More days off and better schedule control as well as a more efficient operation for management. It's particularly good for when the trips are inefficient. Of course there's a grey area anytime you're relying on a computer to make the final calculations so that's why you need good contract language.

Originally Posted by Bigpimppilot

"It's particularly good for when the trips are inefficient. "

Are you smoking crack?

Originally Posted by SheepDogg

They already are getting away with it in the current "climate". Have you not heard about all the complaining about the schedules and reserve pilot abuse?

According to what they have told the union, they don't think you guys care. While I would agree that the company wouldn't touch the hourly pay rate, that is only one component of what determines your actual take home paycheck. They will most certainly attempt to chip away at various conflict scenarios and pay guarantees to lower your actual take home pay without (in their opinion) you noticing that you are now making less money.

In short, at Envoy, I would typically make about 1,100 hr of pay for the year while only blocking 700 - 800 hrs. PBS would eliminate most of that additional pay that I didn't have to fly in order to get.

Originally Posted by Smutter

Can't get more days off. If you have four trips equaling 68 hrs, then you need another trip. So 5 trips is not good. PBS has to build your line to min line value. The good trips are all gone by the 5th or 6th guy. So If you're
Bidding trips you better be in that small group, otherwise you just bid the days you want off, and start and finish times.
.