Good day everybody,

I've been out of the industry for several years and looking at joining Envoy. Reason being is that I had an incident during my CFI days and would need flow as an insurance policy.

With roughly 750 SIC part 121 time, I imagine it wouldn't take long to be displaced to CA in LGA. I don't plan on commuting, even if LGA is a must, and requesting insight on reserve life at Envoy while living in base.

From the lurking that I've done, I've seen many posts stating the reserve system at Envoy is one of the worst out there? Any clarification on how all is set up and what to expect would be greatly appreciated i.e. sitting at home with a 2 hour call out; are the horror stories true where you're sitting ready at the airport each day?

Thank you very much and feel free to PM me if you prefer.

Let me be the first to say that with anything you read on any online forum it is never as bad as people say it is, and it is also never as good as people say it is.

That being said, you will not get airport standby every day even as the most junior guy on the reserve list. Can you get it quite a bit? Absolutely. But to say you will get it every day is an exaggeration. Once you get a little seniority on the reserve list and have a decent number of folks under you, it is possible to to sit at home on a RAP (2 hour call out) and not get called.

If you are on reserve and COMMUTE then reserve is worse than you have ever read on these forums.

If you don't commute and live in base and reserve is staffed appropriately then it's not bad.

So my friend on RAP2 was called to go sit stand by at JFK tonight, looking at the reserve list there is a guy junior to him that had to be called before him the problem is that the guy junior to him was released at 3pm...

Now, CS told my friend that they didnt call the guy junior to him because he already did "stand by" (which is a lie) because my friend is roommates with the guy junior to him who told him he was RAP2 all day and was released at 3pm. (The schedule doesnt show this)

We are pretty new at this so i figured I'd ask u guys. My friend spoke to a Cs supervisor who simply told him that he would "investigate" the matter but he did tell my friend this didnt sound right.

Anyway, he is still sitting reserve at JFK now and didnt even get released (like they did with me this one time they messed up)

He can / should file a grievance.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention they took away OT trip he had for tomorrow so he could go do stand by tonight. -_-

Sounds fatiguing...


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Wow!!!!!!!!!

This is exactly why new hires should stop coming on here asking how many months you’ll be on reserve. Read through these horror stories and see if you can even make it a single month. If this sounds fun and exciting then by all means welcome. Reserve life is miserable. If you’re an HVA prepare yourself now or just go somewhere else.

Make sure he calls CS and lets them know he’s available for re-assignment (assuming he meets his obligations for being close by etc) if he wants the premium pay for the lost OT trip. Otherwise he will only be pay protected for straight pay for the lost OT.

Even though he can’t really be used it’s CS prerogative to use him or not.

Then email pay comp with the time of the call and ask for the premium credit to be applied.

Pretty sad we work in a system where we have to expend so much effort just to be paid properly.

Yep. Then when you do even do all of the above you then have to file a grievance when your pay comp doesn’t agree with you because they don’t understand the LOA’s/contract themselves.

I thought the only rule for reserve was "fly it and grieve it later".

How does he fly it if it was removed from his schedule?

I was just being sarcastic. The title of the thread is "Reserve rules". The OP provided some good rules to follow to help keep a reservist out of trouble. But anytime there is a conflict between what we perceive as "legal" and what crew scheduling is trying to do, ALPA says "fly it and grieve it".

Yep.

/filler/

See whats sad about this is that if we lie to CS about something we would be out the door 100%, this scheduler lied through his teeth telling my friend he had already used the jr guy for the day even though he knew he had released him already, pretty sure the scheduler will be there tomorrow.

If the pilot below has been released scheduling can't just unrelease them. That would require another 10 hours of rest. Sometimes it pays to be the first person to call and ask to be released. Schedulers make stuff up instead of researching sometimes sure, but nothing that really could be done in that situation.

And if the scheduler is wrong. Say look at FO suchandsuch employee #xxxxxx they are below me and available.

First off, never answer your phone. Let it go to voice mail and then check to see if it is contractual. So, I don't know if this was a contract violation. Is it contractual that if the most junior guy calls to get released early that every guy above him also gets released early? It MIGHT be.

Next, time GET THE UNION ON THE PHONE!!! If you are given an assignment that isn't contractual then get the union on the phone. NEVER say you won't accept an assignment. As soon as you say that then they go here is a PG and move on to the next guy. (Say the assignment isn't contractual. Do you have a contractual assignment that I can have? Can I speak with your supervisor? I'll accept the assignment if I am forced to by a chief pilot. I don't think this assignment is legal is there a supervisor or chief pilot we talk to.)

When dealing with a situation like this you need to handle it differently if it is contractual violation vs a LEGAL violation. NEVER get in an argument. Be calm and watch you tone. Don't be passive aggressive. Let the union fight these types of battles. Especially when dealing with CS let the union fight these issues.

If I’m on RAP 2, and get called in to finish the Ready reserve shift until 6pm. Am I done for the day at 6pm or do I go back into RAP until midnight ?

Done for the day


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Early release question
 

I’m a reserve newby. My commute home options tomorrow are 1:15 or 8:30. Which am I more likely to get released early from S1 or RAP1? Is this even a thing or am I just thinking crazy?

More than likely, the only way you'd get released early from S1 is if you got called early for a quick turn that finished early. Otherwise, they won't let you leave before 2 on S1. RAP1, you'd have to have a ton of guys below you on the list for them to even think about releasing you early. 1:15 will be tough to do.

So your saying there is a chance...

Thanks.

I've been released as early as 1:20 on S1 on my last day. But that's in ORD on the 145 where theres only 9,000 other reserves available, so maybe not the norm everywhere. I think it also depends who picks up the phone in scheduling...

That's a good point. ORD is in a rare form right now with the incredible surplus of RSVs they have.

ORD doesn’t have a surplus. We have been approved to fly with augmented crews so that both F/O’s can log the flight time. Seat 1A is approved as a crew rest facility. This is the best way to get everyone off of consolidation.

I would go S1 and stand by the flight you want to get on. Call and ask to be released, explaining your situation. They might let you go if the S2 is available.

I bid for S1 I got RAP 2. Looks like I’m spending another night in ORD, my last night of reserve, and flying home in the morning. What a colossal waste of time.

Yes sir! Let your REP know you would like to see changes in reserve.


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I don’t see why you can’t get an 8:30pm flight home on rap 2. Even on the worst day CS will let you go at that hour on rap 2 on your last day.

And who is my rep?

What time is your last flight out? You're only good for a turn on your last day (unless they Jr man you into an overnight, which at current staffing levels isn't gonna happen), so there comes a point where youre useless to them. I have been released at 8:00 to catch an 8:30 flight no problem on RAP 2 . They won't release you if you don't call and ask though, so you will have to do that...It's a horrible reserve system, but try to use current staffing to make it suck a little less for yourself if you can.

Your LEC contact info is on the ALPA website. You should familiarize yourself with this site. There is some good info here. Most importantly, your Local Reps. they are an excellent resource and can be very helpful with your questions and concerns

Thanks. I’ll try that.

Thanks. I’ll check it out.

I got rap 2 in ORD on my going home day and called and get released @ 2. Just be nice and ask kindly. If they say no than so be it. I'd be shocked if you couldn't get released by 8 to catch that flight

If they say no then follow up with when does the next shift come in or ask when might be a possibility of getting released. And WHEN they release you early say "Thanks have a good day." Hang up!

Honestly I'd even ask at 12 to see if you could get the early flight. There isn't much difference in what a RAP 1/2 is legal for on the last day.

Also, did someone junior to you get the S1? And did you bid for the Rap 1?

I think my proffer was rap 1 then standby 1. Got neither with Rap2. Waited patiently and just called @ 2. I didn't want to push it any earlier... Looked @ who was below me and mentioned that when I called. I think there were 25 total on RAP when I called

Man, when I was on reserve, I called nearly every day to be released early from both RAP and standby. I commute but it's an easy one to commute daily from so there were a lot of times where going home just for the night made sense by being released a few hours early.

Anyway, standby is definitely harder to get out of than RAP, but not impossible.

Don't worry about pushing your luck or feeling cheaky about calling too early. Just call and ask. Worst thing is that they say 'no'. If it really is too early, when you call later for the next flight option, they'll remember you really wanted to get out of dodge earlier. Best case, you're released the first time you called. There is no penalty for asking.

If it's your last day, whether you're on standby or RAP, if they hesitate about releasing you, ask them if there are any turns left you're good for and remind them it's your last day. My experience, just them knowing it's your last day is often enough and it's not always obvious to them that it's your last day.

Be nice and courteous on these calls. Don't pick a fight. When they remember you from the last time they talked to you, you don't want them expecting a confrontation.