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If you proffer for rap 1 and then standby they will give you standby first if it’s available. Standby counts as a flight assignment and therefor has a higher priority than rap. If you feel you’d be settling for standby then don’t bid for it at all.
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Yeah, if you'd rather have a rap, do not put a standby in your preferences at all.
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Originally Posted by highfarfast
(Post 2551735)
Man, when I was on reserve, I called nearly every day to be released early from both RAP and standby. I commute but it's an easy one to commute daily from so there were a lot of times where going home just for the night made sense by being released a few hours early.
Anyway, standby is definitely harder to get out of than RAP, but not impossible. Don't worry about pushing your luck or feeling cheaky about calling too early. Just call and ask. Worst thing is that they say 'no'. If it really is too early, when you call later for the next flight option, they'll remember you really wanted to get out of dodge earlier. Best case, you're released the first time you called. There is no penalty for asking. If it's your last day, whether you're on standby or RAP, if they hesitate about releasing you, ask them if there are any turns left you're good for and remind them it's your last day. My experience, just them knowing it's your last day is often enough and it's not always obvious to them that it's your last day. Be nice and courteous on these calls. Don't pick a fight. When they remember you from the last time they talked to you, you don't want them expecting a confrontation. Now with that said, I want as much time as I can at home... But I ain't throwing a fit it they don't let me catch the 3 o'clock back to Dallas. Part of my mindset probably comes from the military where getting off 30 min early was a flipping miracle. |
Reserve rules
Originally Posted by f16jetmech
(Post 2551842)
I agree with all of the above. I think the having a humble mindset will help. I mean, if I'm on rap2 and they release me, that's not owed to me. I'm on call until midnight and even an hour early release is an hour they didn't HAVE to release me. We're here to work, not get off early.
Now with that said, I want as much time as I can at home... But I ain't throwing a fit it they don't let me catch the 3 o'clock back to Dallas. Part of my mindset probably comes from the military where getting off 30 min early was a flipping miracle. Agreed^^^ However, if there is nothing else you can do there is no reason to stick around. Few examples I can think of. 1. No more turns you can do (they would have to junior man you) 2. Do you have 75 hours??? (Look at the captain reserve list see if you can even fly with anyone when they give you this excuse “we may need you to fly a maintenance flight” “we may need you to ferry a plane” FM1 prohibits green on green.. 3. Check the RGG see when the last turn leaves (while on rap depending where you are based add your call out plus 45 minute show time). RAP1 for LGA guys usually won’t be used past 12 ish. 4. Learn section 12 or the contract. For example.. the contract states a pilot on reserve their last day shall not be assigned a PM standby assignment, unless no one else is available. Like everyone else mentioned, be nice and considerate (let them know you are appreciative) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
OT limit?
Is there a limit to how many days and/or hours a reserve pilot can be paid above guarantee for open time in a month?
I feel like someone told me three days but I can’t find it in the contract? Maybe I’m just skipping over it. |
Originally Posted by cabotage
(Post 2551879)
Is there a limit to how many days and/or hours a reserve pilot can be paid above guarantee for open time in a month?
I feel like someone told me three days but I can’t find it in the contract? Maybe I’m just skipping over it. We can’t go below 8 days off a month. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
ah gotya, that's what it is. thank you!
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Bid a conflict during transition and be able to pick up 4 days. Make the ot count during the 48 hr window
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Originally Posted by FullThrust
(Post 2551514)
I don’t see why you can’t get an 8:30pm flight home on rap 2. Even on the worst day CS will let you go at that hour on rap 2 on your last day.
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Originally Posted by Naviator
(Post 2552574)
And .... they did. You are correct sir. She released me at 7:30.
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Originally Posted by Pedro4President
(Post 2552664)
Did you try earlier?
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Originally Posted by Naviator
(Post 2552724)
Yes, I called at 6 which was just after the last turn departed. She said call back after 7 and she’d see what she could do.
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Reserve rules
Not sure who is still there or not, but get to know who is cool and who is just covering their rear. There are certain ones who will help you out and just be positive with them. The ones that do help you really take note if you do help them out on the flip side as well.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro |
The 14 hours RAPs here really bothered me at first. Then, I learned to look at RAP as available for duty instead of available for phone call.
Consider 1000-2359 RAP. If they call me at 2000 for a 2200 report and 2245 flight time, I would have to know for certain I could get that plane blocked in by 0000 (1 hour 15 minutes). Otherwise, Envoy is writing a report to the FAA explaining why I was extended past my legal FDP and what they are doing to never let it happen again (14 CFR 117.19). Deadheading would still be an option, but I can only conceive perfect storm scenarios in which deadheading the RAP pilot makes sense. Point being, know your 117 limits and asked to be released as appropriate. I've got lot of arguments that 10-hour RAPs benefit both pilots and company. But as much as pilots would be able to work the system of 10-hour RAPs, so could the company. The devils you know for the devils you don't. |
Originally Posted by jshoneycutt
(Post 2553337)
The 14 hours RAPs here really bothered me at first. Then, I learned to look at RAP as available for duty instead of available for phone call.
Consider 1000-2359 RAP. If they call me at 2000 for a 2200 report and 2245 flight time, I would have to know for certain I could get that plane blocked in by 0000 (1 hour 15 minutes). Otherwise, Envoy is writing a report to the FAA explaining why I was extended past my legal FDP and what they are doing to never let it happen again (14 CFR 117.19). Deadheading would still be an option, but I can only conceive perfect storm scenarios in which deadheading the RAP pilot makes sense. Point being, know your 117 limits and asked to be released as appropriate. I've got lot of arguments that 10-hour RAPs benefit both pilots and company. But as much as pilots would be able to work the system of 10-hour RAPs, so could the company. The devils you know for the devils you don't. |
Originally Posted by jshoneycutt
(Post 2553337)
The 14 hours RAPs here really bothered me at first. Then, I learned to look at RAP as available for duty instead of available for phone call.
Consider 1000-2359 RAP. If they call me at 2000 for a 2200 report and 2245 flight time, I would have to know for certain I could get that plane blocked in by 0000 (1 hour 15 minutes). Otherwise, Envoy is writing a report to the FAA explaining why I was extended past my legal FDP and what they are doing to never let it happen again (14 CFR 117.19). Deadheading would still be an option, but I can only conceive perfect storm scenarios in which deadheading the RAP pilot makes sense. Point being, know your 117 limits and asked to be released as appropriate. I've got lot of arguments that 10-hour RAPs benefit both pilots and company. But as much as pilots would be able to work the system of 10-hour RAPs, so could the company. The devils you know for the devils you don't. |
Flight scheduled 2:45 after they call you. 2 hours to get to the airport
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So i preferenced RAP1 and got RAP2. 2 guys below me in seniority got rap 1. Is there anything I can do about that? Called CS and she said give the next day assignment desk a call @ 5. Seems like BS but wanted to get yalls opinions first.
Tomorrow is my going home day, thats the only reason i actually care |
Got a response from "next day assignment desk" that the 2 below me that got RAP1 were "preassigned" so that's why they got it and why it couldn't be changed.
That makes sense, but on the other hand, what the hell is the point of the seniority system? Should I just not proffer and get a default assigned RAP1? |
Originally Posted by f16jetmech
(Post 2553535)
Got a response from "next day assignment desk" that the 2 below me that got RAP1 were "preassigned" so that's why they got it and why it couldn't be changed.
That makes sense, but on the other hand, what the hell is the point of the seniority system? Should I just not proffer and get a default assigned RAP1? A different day I forgot to proffer because I was on a flight and got RAP2. They work what they know and make up the rest and do what they can get away with. |
Originally Posted by f16jetmech
(Post 2553535)
Got a response from "next day assignment desk" that the 2 below me that got RAP1 were "preassigned" so that's why they got it and why it couldn't be changed.
That makes sense, but on the other hand, what the hell is the point of the seniority system? Should I just not proffer and get a default assigned RAP1? It sounds like the two junior to you were on their first day of reserve availability. You are on your last. So it’s not an apples to apples seniority assignment comparison. If they were on their last day, then you would have a case. |
Originally Posted by f16jetmech
(Post 2553535)
Got a response from "next day assignment desk" that the 2 below me that got RAP1 were "preassigned" so that's why they got it and why it couldn't be changed.
That makes sense, but on the other hand, what the hell is the point of the seniority system? Should I just not proffer and get a default assigned RAP1? |
Originally Posted by f16jetmech
(Post 2553535)
Got a response from "next day assignment desk" that the 2 below me that got RAP1 were "preassigned" so that's why they got it and why it couldn't be changed.
That makes sense, but on the other hand, what the hell is the point of the seniority system? Should I just not proffer and get a default assigned RAP1? |
Originally Posted by FullThrust
(Post 2553573)
Honest question. Have you actually read the section of our contract on how raps are assigned?
It sounds like the two junior to you were on their first day of reserve availability. You are on your last. So it’s not an apples to apples seniority assignment comparison. If they were on their last day, then you would have a case. |
If you don’t proffer you aren’t auto awarded 4am
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Originally Posted by Pedro4President
(Post 2553600)
Yes I have read the contract where RAPs are assigned. His situation was a clear violation of an arbitrated ruling. This is my biggest frustration with reserve and CS.
The guys below him didn’t have the same number of days availability. Hence, CS will (and can per our contract) that he was assigned rap2 due to coverage requirements. Here is the excerpt from Section 12 B Pilots may submit a preference for a RAP during daily reserve open time proffering. Crew Scheduling will assign RAPs in seniority order BASED ON: a) availability of the rap b) coverage requirements c) FAR legality d) pilot’s preference |
Originally Posted by FullThrust
(Post 2553624)
While I agree it sucks, it is not a “clear violation”.
The guys below him didn’t have the same number of days availability. Hence, CS will (and can per our contract) that he was assigned rap2 due to coverage requirements. Here is the excerpt from Section 12 B Pilots may submit a preference for a RAP during daily reserve open time proffering. Crew Scheduling will assign RAPs in seniority order BASED ON: a) availability of the rap b) coverage requirements c) FAR legality d) pilot’s preference |
This isn't a huge deal, but could be at some point when it means me going home or not. I mean CS ended up releasing me @ 1330. 3 and a half hours into my shift she said yeah to home! So I'm not interested in being difficult about not getting the RAP I want when they're letting me go so easily.
If I was stuck until 1159 tonight then I might pursue this more. I was more curious than anything. Seems like there's no real clear answer... But logic says it doesn't make any sense that some guy who "forgot to proffer so he gets RAP1" but the guy who's above him and DID proffer, doesn't get what he wants. |
Originally Posted by f16jetmech
(Post 2554496)
This isn't a huge deal, but could be at some point when it means me going home or not. I mean CS ended up releasing me @ 1330. 3 and a half hours into my shift she said yeah to home! So I'm not interested in being difficult about not getting the RAP I want when they're letting me go so easily.
If I was stuck until 1159 tonight then I might pursue this more. I was more curious than anything. Seems like there's no real clear answer... But logic says it doesn't make any sense that some guy who "forgot to proffer so he gets RAP1" but the guy who's above him and DID proffer, doesn't get what he wants. Also, I almost always push for a RAP 2 on my last day. The last turn gets back at 9ish. A RAP 1 is contractually available until 7 pm and legal until 8 plus the extension. Plus you avoid the likelyhood of doing the S1 standby shift. |
Originally Posted by FullThrust
(Post 2553624)
While I agree it sucks, it is not a “clear violation”.
The guys below him didn’t have the same number of days availability. Hence, CS will (and can per our contract) that he was assigned rap2 due to coverage requirements. Here is the excerpt from Section 12 B Pilots may submit a preference for a RAP during daily reserve open time proffering. Crew Scheduling will assign RAPs in seniority order BASED ON: a) availability of the rap b) coverage requirements c) FAR legality d) pilot’s preference Your point on coverage availability only stands if the junior pilot below has less days off then you. You are good for two and the junior pilot is good for one so CS assigned you a RAP 2 and the junior pilot a RAP 1 when you proffered for a RAP 1. Also a pre assigned RAP wasn't assigned based on coverage availability it was pre assigned. |
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
(Post 2554561)
Please at least file a fact sheet with union. You don't even have to request any compensation although you would likely get something. The fact is that this situation is the single biggest contract violation CS continues to abuse. You didn't get burned this time but you may get it next time.
Also, I almost always push for a RAP 2 on my last day. The last turn gets back at 9ish. A RAP 1 is contractually available until 7 pm and legal until 8 plus the extension. Plus you avoid the likelyhood of doing the S1 standby shift. Reason (in my ignorant mind) for RAP1 is that I'm on duty longer come 1000 or so and I can start calling, as opposed to just coming on duty at 1000. |
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
(Post 2554561)
Please at least file a fact sheet with union. You don't even have to request any compensation although you would likely get something. The fact is that this situation is the single biggest contract violation CS continues to abuse. You didn't get burned this time but you may get it next time.
Also, I almost always push for a RAP 2 on my last day. The last turn gets back at 9ish. A RAP 1 is contractually available until 7 pm and legal until 8 plus the extension. Plus you avoid the likelyhood of doing the S1 standby shift. Ummmm what? Can you run some scenarios ? And differences between legally and contractual. Doesn’t the bid packet say something about 4am till 6 pm? |
Originally Posted by Bigpimppilot
(Post 2554696)
Ummmm what? Can you run some scenarios ? And differences between legally and contractual. Doesn’t the bid packet say something about 4am till 6 pm?
You can be called at 4 am to do a turn that ends at 7pm because you are legal to 8pm. (16 hrs.). The 7pm contractual limit is because we can't be scheduled to fly within an hour of max FDP. Side note they can contractually give you an assignment that ends at 8pm with a DH. Think DFW CVG ORD DFW trip. |
Does anyone know the difference between a composite and a RLF line
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Originally Posted by yeahbutstill
(Post 2555548)
Does anyone know the difference between a composite and a RLF line
Composite line will have a mix of scheduled flying and reserve days. |
Originally Posted by FullThrust
(Post 2555571)
Relief line is built from OT as a result of transition schedule adjustments and has no reserve days.
Composite line will have a mix of scheduled flying and reserve days. |
Originally Posted by yeahbutstill
(Post 2555668)
Awesome, I asked around but couldnt get a straight anwer on this
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Trip trade & turn back for OT on reserve?
While on reserve and picking up OT, can a reserve pilot flying an OT sequence place themselves on the turn back list and be paid OT for any additional flying?
Next question? Can a reserve pilot trade a trip picked up in OT for a P2P trip with more time and still receive OT pay for that time? |
Originally Posted by cabotage
(Post 2561395)
While on reserve and picking up OT, can a reserve pilot flying an OT sequence place themselves on the turn back list and be paid OT for any additional flying?
Next question? Can a reserve pilot trade a trip picked up in OT for a P2P trip with more time and still receive OT pay for that time? So several things to unpack with this one. You can ONLY pick up OT on your days off. So if you have a turn on your day off and you want more flying then just call CS and tell them what's going on and offer to be put on the OT volunteer list or just tell them to add it to your schedule. Also, we have reserve appropriation. This means you can take any over night or turns at the end of a reserve pilots sequence for premium pay. The only exception is if the pilot is on the turn back list then he is protected. I assume FOs within 30 days of consolidation are also exempt. |
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
(Post 2561477)
Second part first. In order to trade then you have to do it via swaps and drops. But yes it can be done.
So several things to unpack with this one. You can ONLY pick up OT on your days off. So if you have a turn on your day off and you want more flying then just call CS and tell them what's going on and offer to be put on the OT volunteer list or just tell them to add it to your schedule. Also, we have reserve appropriation. This means you can take any over night or turns at the end of a reserve pilots sequence for premium pay. The only exception is if the pilot is on the turn back list then he is protected. I assume FOs within 30 days of consolidation are also exempt. |
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