Direct Entry Captains
03-09-2019 | 09:27 PM
#61
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Joined: Nov 2018
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That's the system we all signed up for. It sucks, but I don't have tons of sympathy for someone who will get it back in the next vacancy.
I do feel bad and very sympathetic for people who went to an airline for a base for it to close and now they have to make a decision to move or start over with someone else.
I do feel bad and very sympathetic for people who went to an airline for a base for it to close and now they have to make a decision to move or start over with someone else.
03-10-2019 | 06:26 AM
#62
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,176
Likes: 157
I'm all for the seniority system, but it's far from perfect. Imagine this scenario.
You get hired on at a regional, your seniority number in class is either determined by your SSN, age or whatever. So Joe Blow is a couple months older than you or his SSN is higher, and is one number senior to you.
Joe Blow goes to the line and bids reserve a lot because he lives in base and likes the time off. Meanwhile, you are flying every trip you can get so you can upgrade as soon as possible. You get the required hours to upgrade to CA and do so, meanwhile Joe Blow only has 500 hrs. Joe Blow finally gets the remaining time to upgrade a year later and upgrades to CA, and bumps you from your base, although you've been a CA for a year now, and busted your ass to get there. Same class, upgraded much earlier, but still get screwed.
You get hired on at a regional, your seniority number in class is either determined by your SSN, age or whatever. So Joe Blow is a couple months older than you or his SSN is higher, and is one number senior to you.
Joe Blow goes to the line and bids reserve a lot because he lives in base and likes the time off. Meanwhile, you are flying every trip you can get so you can upgrade as soon as possible. You get the required hours to upgrade to CA and do so, meanwhile Joe Blow only has 500 hrs. Joe Blow finally gets the remaining time to upgrade a year later and upgrades to CA, and bumps you from your base, although you've been a CA for a year now, and busted your ass to get there. Same class, upgraded much earlier, but still get screwed.
Don’t fret, it’s not as bad as it seems once you understand the system. Those same protections are there for you as well.
03-10-2019 | 08:19 AM
#63
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Joined: Nov 2018
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You don’t understand how it works. Just because they are senior to you doesn’t mean they can kick you out of your spot at a base. They can transfer when there is an opening and move you down the list, however it would take them being displaced, ie forced to your base to bump you out.
Don’t fret, it’s not as bad as it seems once you understand the system. Those same protections are there for you as well.
Don’t fret, it’s not as bad as it seems once you understand the system. Those same protections are there for you as well.
03-10-2019 | 08:51 AM
#64
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,176
Likes: 157
Forced Upgrade Scenario
FO has no proffer in place, but does have displacement preference of OCL. Company makes the FO upgrade and since no proffer, they displace them to OCL, assuming of course they can hold in with their seniority. You are junior to this pilot and happen to be the very bottom OCL on the list. You could get bumped out of base.
Normal Vacancy Scenario
FO has a proffer in place for OCL and is senior to you. You will not get displaced out of that base just because they come in, since in this case they are entering with a vacancy bid, essentially meaning there are open slots.
So while you can get displaced out of a base due to the first scenario, it is this exact scenario that will allow you to get back to it. If you get displaced out, you are not locked, so you can proffer back to it once your seniority can hold it.
It would suck yes, but you will be able to get back.
FO has no proffer in place, but does have displacement preference of OCL. Company makes the FO upgrade and since no proffer, they displace them to OCL, assuming of course they can hold in with their seniority. You are junior to this pilot and happen to be the very bottom OCL on the list. You could get bumped out of base.
Normal Vacancy Scenario
FO has a proffer in place for OCL and is senior to you. You will not get displaced out of that base just because they come in, since in this case they are entering with a vacancy bid, essentially meaning there are open slots.
So while you can get displaced out of a base due to the first scenario, it is this exact scenario that will allow you to get back to it. If you get displaced out, you are not locked, so you can proffer back to it once your seniority can hold it.
It would suck yes, but you will be able to get back.
03-10-2019 | 01:32 PM
#65
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 832
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Forced Upgrade Scenario
FO has no proffer in place, but does have displacement preference of OCL. Company makes the FO upgrade and since no proffer, they displace them to OCL, assuming of course they can hold in with their seniority. You are junior to this pilot and happen to be the very bottom OCL on the list. You could get bumped out of base.
Normal Vacancy Scenario
FO has a proffer in place for OCL and is senior to you. You will not get displaced out of that base just because they come in, since in this case they are entering with a vacancy bid, essentially meaning there are open slots.
So while you can get displaced out of a base due to the first scenario, it is this exact scenario that will allow you to get back to it. If you get displaced out, you are not locked, so you can proffer back to it once your seniority can hold it.
It would suck yes, but you will be able to get back.
FO has no proffer in place, but does have displacement preference of OCL. Company makes the FO upgrade and since no proffer, they displace them to OCL, assuming of course they can hold in with their seniority. You are junior to this pilot and happen to be the very bottom OCL on the list. You could get bumped out of base.
Normal Vacancy Scenario
FO has a proffer in place for OCL and is senior to you. You will not get displaced out of that base just because they come in, since in this case they are entering with a vacancy bid, essentially meaning there are open slots.
So while you can get displaced out of a base due to the first scenario, it is this exact scenario that will allow you to get back to it. If you get displaced out, you are not locked, so you can proffer back to it once your seniority can hold it.
It would suck yes, but you will be able to get back.
03-10-2019 | 01:55 PM
#66
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
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Forced Upgrade Scenario
FO has no proffer in place, but does have displacement preference of OCL. Company makes the FO upgrade and since no proffer, they displace them to OCL, assuming of course they can hold in with their seniority. You are junior to this pilot and happen to be the very bottom OCL on the list. You could get bumped out of base.
Normal Vacancy Scenario
FO has a proffer in place for OCL and is senior to you. You will not get displaced out of that base just because they come in, since in this case they are entering with a vacancy bid, essentially meaning there are open slots.
So while you can get displaced out of a base due to the first scenario, it is this exact scenario that will allow you to get back to it. If you get displaced out, you are not locked, so you can proffer back to it once your seniority can hold it.
It would suck yes, but you will be able to get back.
FO has no proffer in place, but does have displacement preference of OCL. Company makes the FO upgrade and since no proffer, they displace them to OCL, assuming of course they can hold in with their seniority. You are junior to this pilot and happen to be the very bottom OCL on the list. You could get bumped out of base.
Normal Vacancy Scenario
FO has a proffer in place for OCL and is senior to you. You will not get displaced out of that base just because they come in, since in this case they are entering with a vacancy bid, essentially meaning there are open slots.
So while you can get displaced out of a base due to the first scenario, it is this exact scenario that will allow you to get back to it. If you get displaced out, you are not locked, so you can proffer back to it once your seniority can hold it.
It would suck yes, but you will be able to get back.
03-10-2019 | 03:33 PM
#67
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,176
Likes: 157
Seriously? It was to show the process not an actual event. It appears the person in question now understands.
03-14-2019 | 10:23 PM
#69
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 832
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So, given the choice between a Near-DEC at Envoy or GoJet, which would you choose?
After upgrade, GoJet would be the CRJ in ORD, STL or DEN.
Envoy would be the E145 in ORD?
They pay about the same. Both have the $45k bonus. I'm racking my brain.
Interview with GoJet next week. Might schedule one with Envoy also.
After upgrade, GoJet would be the CRJ in ORD, STL or DEN.
Envoy would be the E145 in ORD?
They pay about the same. Both have the $45k bonus. I'm racking my brain.
Interview with GoJet next week. Might schedule one with Envoy also.
03-14-2019 | 10:34 PM
#70
Thread Starter
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
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Forced Upgrade Scenario
FO has no proffer in place, but does have displacement preference of OCL. Company makes the FO upgrade and since no proffer, they displace them to OCL, assuming of course they can hold in with their seniority. You are junior to this pilot and happen to be the very bottom OCL on the list. You could get bumped out of base.
Normal Vacancy Scenario
FO has a proffer in place for OCL and is senior to you. You will not get displaced out of that base just because they come in, since in this case they are entering with a vacancy bid, essentially meaning there are open slots.
So while you can get displaced out of a base due to the first scenario, it is this exact scenario that will allow you to get back to it. If you get displaced out, you are not locked, so you can proffer back to it once your seniority can hold it.
It would suck yes, but you will be able to get back.
FO has no proffer in place, but does have displacement preference of OCL. Company makes the FO upgrade and since no proffer, they displace them to OCL, assuming of course they can hold in with their seniority. You are junior to this pilot and happen to be the very bottom OCL on the list. You could get bumped out of base.
Normal Vacancy Scenario
FO has a proffer in place for OCL and is senior to you. You will not get displaced out of that base just because they come in, since in this case they are entering with a vacancy bid, essentially meaning there are open slots.
So while you can get displaced out of a base due to the first scenario, it is this exact scenario that will allow you to get back to it. If you get displaced out, you are not locked, so you can proffer back to it once your seniority can hold it.
It would suck yes, but you will be able to get back.
If a pilot is truly displaced then a proffer to displace acts essentially as a displacement with some restrictions.
If the proffer to displace is from a FO forced upgrade then it is essentially the same as a preference bid. (Extra displacement protections apply.)
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