Fair points, no shoe fits all i guess. To my logic a 10dllr difference at 75hrs a month 750 x 12 months = 9000 dollars. To me, that is not peanuts.

Second, not everyone upgrades at a min of 70 or 72, im getting 67.

Not a terrible gig, not complaining, works for me right now. I just wanted to share some info in case there are new hires and wanted to get a current perspective.

 

All the other regionals listed have a bonus as well. $10/hr is an extra $750+ per month. Thats signifigant, especially when considering things like over guarantee and premium trips.

And what happens if you don’t flow in 8 years or at all? The difference becomes even more significant. What you’re saying is what the company wants to hear and is the main reason we won’t see any progress with pay. Stop rationalizing the fact we are falling way behind in pay scales.

These numbers are quoted from the union

 

For someone with a "guaranteed" spot at a major (military, and other preferred categories), Envoy likely isn't the best choice.
But for someone who perhaps isn't at the top of the picking order, it still has a good value proposition.

Let me try to open my reasoning a bit more.

This is not my personal situation, but I fall into the similar outlier category.
Let's say you're 45yo with 1500 hours. And let's assume you have a 4 year degree (because if you don't, W/O's are the only game in town if legacies are your end game).
After 5 years at a regional, you're sitting at 5000 hours at 50 years of age.
You start to apply at majors, but unless you have a VERY strong resume from pre-aviation years, you will never get a call. You will probably get through the initial ATS (Taleo, if you're applying to AA) scoring, but since you are so far below your peers (that is: you are being compared against other 50 year old applicants). You have a very big chance on getting stuck at that regional.
Only then you start to consider what the pay rates at 5+ years are at your regional.
Delaying your major indoc date by one year, assuming you are 53 years old or younger, costs you 25 years of pay difference at 8 year pay between Envoy and Republic.

That is why I consider it peanuts, assuming you have to calculate the stuck-at-regional risk value.

 

Yes, if you get stuck at a regional, the difference becomes much more relevant. But that's just a personal risk acceptance level you have to assess yourself.

Have you ever considered the possibility, that they actually know what they are doing? Clearly it is working.

 

This I agree with.....

Perspective.

 

Sound like a mgmt tool, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that It’s just your defensive tone because your trying to be “Right.” But your defending our pay lag hard.

You just got hired according to your previous posts, so I see the incentive of trying to get bodies under you as your primary motive.

But you seem fully gun-ho Sergeant Slaughter for the company, like a replacement login of a character we all know.

 

Wow. Nice attitude dude.

Yes, I just got hired. And Envoy was by far the best option for me. I had CJOs from the other "usual suspects", but they can't compete with the flow, in my case. If that's not good for you, then that's just tough.
I'll reserve my right to b*tch about pay, work rules etc for when I'm actually on the line. For now, I can only work based on facts.
And no, they clearly don't need my help hiring people "under me" - it's pretty difficult to get in - I had a few friends who tried and couldn't, even though they were qualified for the job, maybe even more so than I was.

If that makes me a tool, so be it.

 

Ok, sure thing! Welcome aboard!

Nothing wrong with you coming here, nothing wrong with you thinking this is the best choice for YOU. It’s the management perspective/position YOU support that I was highlighting & the disparaging statements you made against the FACTS posted about us have a large pay lag (not peanuts), compared to our peers.

Flow has no present day monetary value. They want you to believe “flow” has monetary value “right now” in invisible cash that is yours. Hope you realize there is no value in invisible cash.

I’d love to Bargain with you for invisible unrealized opportunity pay 7-9yrs years from now.

 

That possibility will be considered the moment we have defensible EVIDENCE that they do/might. Your claim that it is "clearly" working is as dubious as it is non-compelling.

Given the REAMS of precedent we have demonstrating an almost pathological, REACTIONARY style of management, I'm astonished you'd even try and float that possibility around here...

 

I know it is the best choice for me, there is no comparison. Flow vs. no flow = dealbreaker for me, and a base in DFW sweetens the deal. I've tried to say this before - I am not your typical new hire, so my comments are only relevant to my personal situation.

I don't think you understand the valuation of flow. I could work for free for 8 years, and it would be worth it for me. Now, if flow goes away, I'm SOL, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. That's the personal risk acceptance I mentioned.

I don't want to start an argument about how "people like me" are "the problem" etc, but just remember, we all have our own reasons. And clearly the company way seems to be working, given that Envoy is the hardest regional seat to get right now.

There was nothing disparaging about my comments. I will start complaining about pay/benefits/work rules after I'm done with training. Pre-indoc I don't have that right. I'm just trying to show that there is another side to this argument.
Trust me - I'm not a company/management man. I just don't think it would be cool for me to complain about things I've yet to receive.