Go Back   Airline Pilot Central Forums - Find your next job as a Pilot > > >
Envoy Airlines Regional Airline
 

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 03-27-2019, 05:29 PM   #31  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: 175 FO
Posts: 2,404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckWheelsDown View Post
So, 3-4 months reserve OFL and the new hire classes are being given DFL with ~12 months reserve. What's the reasoning behind that?
Where do you get 12 months of reserve for DFL? Itís now 2-3 months after IOE.
dera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 05:34 PM   #32  
On Reserve
 
CheckWheelsDown's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dera View Post
Where do you get 12 months of reserve for DFL? Itís now 2-3 months after IOE.
From reading recent posts here. That information changes things. I haven't got a class date yet, and trying to work scenarios with what might be offered.
CheckWheelsDown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 06:25 PM   #33  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: 175 FO
Posts: 2,404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CheckWheelsDown View Post
From reading recent posts here. That information changes things. I haven't got a class date yet, and trying to work scenarios with what might be offered.
You shouldn't believe everything you read here.
Junior DFL lineholder is 11/18 hire, and it's a growing base.
2-3 months of reserve is what new guys are looking at right now. I don't see any way it suddenly would jump up to a year.
ORD has longer reserve than DFW, and DFW got 12 new lines for April, ORD lost a couple.
dera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 06:27 PM   #34  
On Reserve
 
CheckWheelsDown's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dera View Post
You shouldn't believe everything you read here.
Junior DFL lineholder is 11/18 hire, and it's a growing base.
2-3 months of reserve is what new guys are looking at right now. I don't see any way it suddenly would jump up to a year.
ORD has longer reserve than DFW, and DFW got 12 new lines for April, ORD lost a couple.
Thank you!
CheckWheelsDown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 07:06 PM   #35  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,490
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by highfarfast View Post
He's already a captain though, so they're not going to look at a PTD from him... I don't think so anyway. In any case, if they did they're not going to displace a junior pilot for a PTD so he's not going to get anything a 3P would get him anyway.

A true displacement is not likely for him but it is theoretically possible for a senior upgrading FO to displace him from his position, thus his 3D settings come into play, and in that case, they'll displace a junior pilot.

Irregardless, we should all have or 3D settings set anyway.
So much of what you said in this post isnít accurate. Iíll try to explain in an example why a PTD is better than a 3D. Essentially a PTD is a ticket to the front of the displacement line. If anyone gets displaced out of DCE he would be looked at first. He is taking the place of the bottom guys on the list. Now thereís no guarantee anyone will be displaced but if enough pilots get 15G4ed to DCE then it could happen. Now because he isnít getting 15G4ed he can hold what seniority can hold regardless if there is a vacancy open. He would then kick the junior pilot out.

This whole 15G4 stuff is so confusing and then to throw in actual displacements makes it even more convoluted. But yes you are right in the fact we should all have 3Ds filled out for ever seat.
Pedro4President is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 08:43 PM   #36  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 751
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pedro4President View Post
So much of what you said in this post isn’t accurate. I’ll try to explain in an example why a PTD is better than a 3D. Essentially a PTD is a ticket to the front of the displacement line. If anyone gets displaced out of DCE he would be looked at first. He is taking the place of the bottom guys on the list. Now there’s no guarantee anyone will be displaced but if enough pilots get 15G4ed to DCE then it could happen. Now because he isn’t getting 15G4ed he can hold what seniority can hold regardless if there is a vacancy open. He would then kick the junior pilot out.

This whole 15G4 stuff is so confusing and then to throw in actual displacements makes it even more convoluted. But yes you are right in the fact we should all have 3Ds filled out for ever seat.
OK, you guys are reading the union emails differently than I am or the union emails are not matching what's going on.

From the union email on Jan 3rd (regarding the last bid):

"A proffer to displace pilot will only be awarded the leftover / unfilled status(es) that remain after the vacancy portion is run. A 15.G.4 pilot will go wherever his seniority can hold."

/\ I read that to mean a PTD will not displace a junior pilot but a 15.G.4 will.

"For Captains, if you're not currently under a training freeze, you can vacancy bid and/or attempt a proffer to displace. For FOs, there is still no provision to get you from jet-to-jet without a displacement bid. Any displacements occurring on this bid are likely to be from FO to CA only."

/\ on this one, I had forgotten but it appears captains can use the PTD as long as they don't have a training freeze. However, given a PTD will not displace a junior pilot (per first quote), I don't see what the point is for the situation being discussed. But for those 175 FOs that were forced to 145 CA, this is great. As long as they didn't volunteer for the training freeze, this is a free path back to the 175 where they can THEN volunteer for the training freeze.

Then from the same email:

"Here's how it will work:

1. The Company will award vacancies via the normal process: preferences (3P) first, in seniority order.

2. Unfilled Captain vacancies will be noted (if insufficient preference bids).

3. Proffers to displace will then be considered for the unfilled Captain vacancies, in seniority order (from top to bottom). Proffers to displace do not incur a training freeze (seatlock) nor will they incur any sort of flow freeze or flow lock.

4. Once/If all proffers to displace are exhausted and unfilled vacancies remain, the parties will tally the number of unfilled vacancies. Starting at the bottom of the seniority list, the parties will identify a sufficient number of the most junior qualified pilots (working from most junior to most senior) and place them into a pool. The parties will then turn to the most senior pilot in this pool and involuntarily assign him/her to any position that their seniority can hold while respecting displacement preferences (3D)."

I'm not trying to be argumentative but if I don't understand what I'm reading, I'd like to know what I'm missing.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by highfarfast; 03-27-2019 at 09:18 PM.
highfarfast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 02:20 AM   #37  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 663
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by highfarfast View Post
OK, you guys are reading the union emails differently than I am or the union emails are not matching what's going on.

From the union email on Jan 3rd (regarding the last bid):

"A proffer to displace pilot will only be awarded the leftover / unfilled status(es) that remain after the vacancy portion is run. A 15.G.4 pilot will go wherever his seniority can hold."

/\ I read that to mean a PTD will not displace a junior pilot but a 15.G.4 will.

"For Captains, if you're not currently under a training freeze, you can vacancy bid and/or attempt a proffer to displace. For FOs, there is still no provision to get you from jet-to-jet without a displacement bid. Any displacements occurring on this bid are likely to be from FO to CA only."

/\ on this one, I had forgotten but it appears captains can use the PTD as long as they don't have a training freeze. However, given a PTD will not displace a junior pilot (per first quote), I don't see what the point is for the situation being discussed. But for those 175 FOs that were forced to 145 CA, this is great. As long as they didn't volunteer for the training freeze, this is a free path back to the 175 where they can THEN volunteer for the training freeze.

Then from the same email:

"Here's how it will work:

1. The Company will award vacancies via the normal process: preferences (3P) first, in seniority order.

2. Unfilled Captain vacancies will be noted (if insufficient preference bids).

3. Proffers to displace will then be considered for the unfilled Captain vacancies, in seniority order (from top to bottom). Proffers to displace do not incur a training freeze (seatlock) nor will they incur any sort of flow freeze or flow lock.

4. Once/If all proffers to displace are exhausted and unfilled vacancies remain, the parties will tally the number of unfilled vacancies. Starting at the bottom of the seniority list, the parties will identify a sufficient number of the most junior qualified pilots (working from most junior to most senior) and place them into a pool. The parties will then turn to the most senior pilot in this pool and involuntarily assign him/her to any position that their seniority can hold while respecting displacement preferences (3D)."

I'm not trying to be argumentative but if I don't understand what I'm reading, I'd like to know what I'm missing.

Thanks in advance.
Contract section 15.L is pretty clear about what a proffer to displace can do. I'd suggest a quick read through. The union email may be confusing things because they are just barely touching the PTD topic.
moon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 06:14 AM   #38  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 68
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dera View Post
You shouldn't believe everything you read here.
Junior DFL lineholder is 11/18 hire, and it's a growing base.
2-3 months of reserve is what new guys are looking at right now. I don't see any way it suddenly would jump up to a year.
ORD has longer reserve than DFW, and DFW got 12 new lines for April, ORD lost a couple.
11/18 hires are at the bottom 1/3rd of the reserve list
bh539 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 09:51 AM   #39  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: 175 FO
Posts: 2,404
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bh539 View Post
11/18 hires are at the bottom 1/3rd of the reserve list
Let's just return to raw facts for a moment. This is for April.
11/18 hire got awarded BLK 346 which is a CMP line.
If we move goal posts, and talk only about hard lines. 10/18 hire got awarded BLK 314, which is a hard line.
dera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2019, 12:40 PM   #40  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 379
Default

When does this bid close?
Ijustlikeflying is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
 

 
Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Vacancy 19-05V is open 12/4 -12/14 Ni hao United 243 06-24-2019 05:47 AM
Vacancy Bid 14-12V (120 EWR FOs 737/320) C-17 Driver United 47 07-18-2014 07:08 PM
Future Vacancy Bids LeeMat United 214 02-06-2013 07:04 PM
FDX: Preferential Bidding CloudSailor Cargo 63 10-31-2012 01:17 PM
STV vs. CBA DiamondZ Cargo 26 08-03-2007 01:18 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 03:07 AM.


vBulletin® v3.9.3.5, Copyright ©2000-2019, MH Sub I, LLC dba vBulletin
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Website Copyright ©2000 - 2017 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1