Spring Vacancy Bidding
03-27-2019, 05:29 PM
#31
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,457
Originally Posted by CheckWheelsDown
So, 3-4 months reserve OFL and the new hire classes are being given DFL with ~12 months reserve. What's the reasoning behind that?
03-27-2019, 05:34 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by dera
Where do you get 12 months of reserve for DFL? It’s now 2-3 months after IOE.
03-27-2019, 06:25 PM
#33
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,457
Originally Posted by CheckWheelsDown
From reading recent posts here. That information changes things. I haven't got a class date yet, and trying to work scenarios with what might be offered.
Junior DFL lineholder is 11/18 hire, and it's a growing base.
2-3 months of reserve is what new guys are looking at right now. I don't see any way it suddenly would jump up to a year.
ORD has longer reserve than DFW, and DFW got 12 new lines for April, ORD lost a couple.
03-27-2019, 06:27 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2019
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by dera
You shouldn't believe everything you read here.
Junior DFL lineholder is 11/18 hire, and it's a growing base.
2-3 months of reserve is what new guys are looking at right now. I don't see any way it suddenly would jump up to a year.
ORD has longer reserve than DFW, and DFW got 12 new lines for April, ORD lost a couple.
Junior DFL lineholder is 11/18 hire, and it's a growing base.
2-3 months of reserve is what new guys are looking at right now. I don't see any way it suddenly would jump up to a year.
ORD has longer reserve than DFW, and DFW got 12 new lines for April, ORD lost a couple.
03-27-2019, 07:06 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by highfarfast
He's already a captain though, so they're not going to look at a PTD from him... I don't think so anyway. In any case, if they did they're not going to displace a junior pilot for a PTD so he's not going to get anything a 3P would get him anyway.
A true displacement is not likely for him but it is theoretically possible for a senior upgrading FO to displace him from his position, thus his 3D settings come into play, and in that case, they'll displace a junior pilot.
Irregardless, we should all have or 3D settings set anyway.
A true displacement is not likely for him but it is theoretically possible for a senior upgrading FO to displace him from his position, thus his 3D settings come into play, and in that case, they'll displace a junior pilot.
Irregardless, we should all have or 3D settings set anyway.
This whole 15G4 stuff is so confusing and then to throw in actual displacements makes it even more convoluted. But yes you are right in the fact we should all have 3Ds filled out for ever seat.
03-27-2019, 08:43 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by Pedro4President
So much of what you said in this post isn’t accurate. I’ll try to explain in an example why a PTD is better than a 3D. Essentially a PTD is a ticket to the front of the displacement line. If anyone gets displaced out of DCE he would be looked at first. He is taking the place of the bottom guys on the list. Now there’s no guarantee anyone will be displaced but if enough pilots get 15G4ed to DCE then it could happen. Now because he isn’t getting 15G4ed he can hold what seniority can hold regardless if there is a vacancy open. He would then kick the junior pilot out.
This whole 15G4 stuff is so confusing and then to throw in actual displacements makes it even more convoluted. But yes you are right in the fact we should all have 3Ds filled out for ever seat.
This whole 15G4 stuff is so confusing and then to throw in actual displacements makes it even more convoluted. But yes you are right in the fact we should all have 3Ds filled out for ever seat.
From the union email on Jan 3rd (regarding the last bid):
"A proffer to displace pilot will only be awarded the leftover / unfilled status(es) that remain after the vacancy portion is run. A 15.G.4 pilot will go wherever his seniority can hold."
/\ I read that to mean a PTD will not displace a junior pilot but a 15.G.4 will.
"For Captains, if you're not currently under a training freeze, you can vacancy bid and/or attempt a proffer to displace. For FOs, there is still no provision to get you from jet-to-jet without a displacement bid. Any displacements occurring on this bid are likely to be from FO to CA only."
/\ on this one, I had forgotten but it appears captains can use the PTD as long as they don't have a training freeze. However, given a PTD will not displace a junior pilot (per first quote), I don't see what the point is for the situation being discussed. But for those 175 FOs that were forced to 145 CA, this is great. As long as they didn't volunteer for the training freeze, this is a free path back to the 175 where they can THEN volunteer for the training freeze.
Then from the same email:
"Here's how it will work:
1. The Company will award vacancies via the normal process: preferences (3P) first, in seniority order.
2. Unfilled Captain vacancies will be noted (if insufficient preference bids).
3. Proffers to displace will then be considered for the unfilled Captain vacancies, in seniority order (from top to bottom). Proffers to displace do not incur a training freeze (seatlock) nor will they incur any sort of flow freeze or flow lock.
4. Once/If all proffers to displace are exhausted and unfilled vacancies remain, the parties will tally the number of unfilled vacancies. Starting at the bottom of the seniority list, the parties will identify a sufficient number of the most junior qualified pilots (working from most junior to most senior) and place them into a pool. The parties will then turn to the most senior pilot in this pool and involuntarily assign him/her to any position that their seniority can hold while respecting displacement preferences (3D)."
I'm not trying to be argumentative but if I don't understand what I'm reading, I'd like to know what I'm missing.
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by highfarfast; 03-27-2019 at 09:18 PM.
03-28-2019, 02:20 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 687
Originally Posted by highfarfast
OK, you guys are reading the union emails differently than I am or the union emails are not matching what's going on.
From the union email on Jan 3rd (regarding the last bid):
"A proffer to displace pilot will only be awarded the leftover / unfilled status(es) that remain after the vacancy portion is run. A 15.G.4 pilot will go wherever his seniority can hold."
/\ I read that to mean a PTD will not displace a junior pilot but a 15.G.4 will.
"For Captains, if you're not currently under a training freeze, you can vacancy bid and/or attempt a proffer to displace. For FOs, there is still no provision to get you from jet-to-jet without a displacement bid. Any displacements occurring on this bid are likely to be from FO to CA only."
/\ on this one, I had forgotten but it appears captains can use the PTD as long as they don't have a training freeze. However, given a PTD will not displace a junior pilot (per first quote), I don't see what the point is for the situation being discussed. But for those 175 FOs that were forced to 145 CA, this is great. As long as they didn't volunteer for the training freeze, this is a free path back to the 175 where they can THEN volunteer for the training freeze.
Then from the same email:
"Here's how it will work:
1. The Company will award vacancies via the normal process: preferences (3P) first, in seniority order.
2. Unfilled Captain vacancies will be noted (if insufficient preference bids).
3. Proffers to displace will then be considered for the unfilled Captain vacancies, in seniority order (from top to bottom). Proffers to displace do not incur a training freeze (seatlock) nor will they incur any sort of flow freeze or flow lock.
4. Once/If all proffers to displace are exhausted and unfilled vacancies remain, the parties will tally the number of unfilled vacancies. Starting at the bottom of the seniority list, the parties will identify a sufficient number of the most junior qualified pilots (working from most junior to most senior) and place them into a pool. The parties will then turn to the most senior pilot in this pool and involuntarily assign him/her to any position that their seniority can hold while respecting displacement preferences (3D)."
I'm not trying to be argumentative but if I don't understand what I'm reading, I'd like to know what I'm missing.
Thanks in advance.
From the union email on Jan 3rd (regarding the last bid):
"A proffer to displace pilot will only be awarded the leftover / unfilled status(es) that remain after the vacancy portion is run. A 15.G.4 pilot will go wherever his seniority can hold."
/\ I read that to mean a PTD will not displace a junior pilot but a 15.G.4 will.
"For Captains, if you're not currently under a training freeze, you can vacancy bid and/or attempt a proffer to displace. For FOs, there is still no provision to get you from jet-to-jet without a displacement bid. Any displacements occurring on this bid are likely to be from FO to CA only."
/\ on this one, I had forgotten but it appears captains can use the PTD as long as they don't have a training freeze. However, given a PTD will not displace a junior pilot (per first quote), I don't see what the point is for the situation being discussed. But for those 175 FOs that were forced to 145 CA, this is great. As long as they didn't volunteer for the training freeze, this is a free path back to the 175 where they can THEN volunteer for the training freeze.
Then from the same email:
"Here's how it will work:
1. The Company will award vacancies via the normal process: preferences (3P) first, in seniority order.
2. Unfilled Captain vacancies will be noted (if insufficient preference bids).
3. Proffers to displace will then be considered for the unfilled Captain vacancies, in seniority order (from top to bottom). Proffers to displace do not incur a training freeze (seatlock) nor will they incur any sort of flow freeze or flow lock.
4. Once/If all proffers to displace are exhausted and unfilled vacancies remain, the parties will tally the number of unfilled vacancies. Starting at the bottom of the seniority list, the parties will identify a sufficient number of the most junior qualified pilots (working from most junior to most senior) and place them into a pool. The parties will then turn to the most senior pilot in this pool and involuntarily assign him/her to any position that their seniority can hold while respecting displacement preferences (3D)."
I'm not trying to be argumentative but if I don't understand what I'm reading, I'd like to know what I'm missing.
Thanks in advance.
03-28-2019, 06:14 AM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by dera
You shouldn't believe everything you read here.
Junior DFL lineholder is 11/18 hire, and it's a growing base.
2-3 months of reserve is what new guys are looking at right now. I don't see any way it suddenly would jump up to a year.
ORD has longer reserve than DFW, and DFW got 12 new lines for April, ORD lost a couple.
Junior DFL lineholder is 11/18 hire, and it's a growing base.
2-3 months of reserve is what new guys are looking at right now. I don't see any way it suddenly would jump up to a year.
ORD has longer reserve than DFW, and DFW got 12 new lines for April, ORD lost a couple.
03-28-2019, 09:51 AM
#39
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,457
Originally Posted by bh539
11/18 hires are at the bottom 1/3rd of the reserve list
11/18 hire got awarded BLK 346 which is a CMP line.
If we move goal posts, and talk only about hard lines. 10/18 hire got awarded BLK 314, which is a hard line.
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