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Old 04-05-2019, 09:33 PM   #11  
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The company has said that they aren’t willing to negotiate while recruits are still showing up to class. Therefore it would make sense for us to stop begging the company to negotiate and instead attempt to “inform” potential new hires of our current situation. The company puts out propaganda to attract pilots all the time. The recruiters say everyone will flow in 5 years or less...and not a single rebuttal from the union about that being a load of hot BS. Management loves to parade around all the “new 175s” yet no effort on the union’s part to make potential pilots know that they shined jets are of no consequence to their pay rate and are potentially a negative in regards to relative seniority/QOL. The company was in desperate need for captains so it waived 45k in the faces of potential hires and the Union could have easily smeared that to death with the realities of a being DEC here with our current reserve system. Yet you heard nothing. Bottom line, stop wasting time trying to negotiate with a company who isn’t going to and start doing something that might actually address the issue of why they won’t.
I had said something to this affect a while back. The Union, ENY MEC and ALPA, could put out a resolution stating due to XY&Z that they recommend against Envoy. Spend some of that money on informational picketing and advertising.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:52 PM   #12  
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I think that because we're governed by the railway act and we all know that we're likely not to see improvement until the company is forced to make changes, we can provide education. That's why I pushed the pay differences in a separate thread so it wouldn't get buried.

New hires really fall into two categories, fresh pilots don't understand the intricacies of our work rules and don't have anything to compare them to and DECs who are hoping they can get some PIC time who don't realize (to a certain extent) what they're getting into regarding endless reserve, and the thing I always hear, 9 year flow.

It's all about education, realistic observations, without slant.

I honestly doubt switching to APA would help us, maybe I'm wrong, but it's my opinion that folks at mainline have no idea what's going on here. That said, I think the only thing going to force their hand is recruitment numbers as the claim is with PSA and their raises.

I don't think being hostile to folks thinking about coming here is a good strategy though.
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Old 04-05-2019, 10:54 PM   #13  
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I had said something to this affect a while back. The Union, ENY MEC and ALPA, could put out a resolution stating due to XY&Z that they recommend against Envoy. Spend some of that money on informational picketing and advertising.
How do you get into the head of a twenty something in college who doesn't think to compare rates between regionals?
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:29 AM   #14  
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I had said something to this affect a while back. The Union, ENY MEC and ALPA, could put out a resolution stating due to XY&Z that they recommend against Envoy. Spend some of that money on informational picketing and advertising.
That, how hard is this, instead of the 2-year-old excuse that they can't do anything and their hands are tied.

Instead, we see communications for our union dues used for free alcohol and food, as part of the "fun" part of our dues at work.

Newsflash, I don't give a rat ass about free booze and food, do something that will at least attempt net improvements for the pilot group as a whole instead of a certain group.

And stop telling us you can't do anything ...
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Old 04-06-2019, 11:33 AM   #15  
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How do you get into the head of a twenty something in college who doesn't think to compare rates between regionals?
I am sure even a 20 something will realize how much of a $900 a month pay difference will make if pointed out.
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Old 04-06-2019, 12:59 PM   #16  
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Sending a realistic guy to crash recruitment’s presentations at ATP, etc. would help. Many will still be on the hook the minute they see that shiny 175 though.
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:31 PM   #17  
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Informational campaigns are worthwhile to inform potential new hires. However, ask yourselves how many guys you've seen wearing ALPA pins on the concourse? There's no reason for you to wear a "slick tie," as the United guys might say. Or ALPA lanyards, for that matter (sure, the company pushes wearing AA lanyards or nothing, but good luck enforcing a ban on union lanyards in court.)?

Historically, other ALPA carriers have worn unique solidarity lanyards during contract negotiations. Where is our MEC on this?
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Old 04-06-2019, 01:44 PM   #18  
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I am sure even a 20 something will realize how much of a $900 a month pay difference will make if pointed out.
When they live in their parent's basement with no living expenses, they don't care, they want that shiny new 175. And that's not just an Envoy problem, its an industry problem.
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Old 04-06-2019, 03:32 PM   #19  
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That, how hard is this, instead of the 2-year-old excuse that they can't do anything and their hands are tied.

Instead, we see communications for our union dues used for free alcohol and food, as part of the "fun" part of our dues at work.

Newsflash, I don't give a rat ass about free booze and food, do something that will at least attempt net improvements for the pilot group as a whole instead of a certain group.

And stop telling us you can't do anything ...
You're forgetting one thing about union motives.

Most of them are close to flowing.
Whats the best way to ensure company doesnt start throttling the flow?
Yep. Make sure new hires are showing up, and that you dont end up in a ****list that prevents you from flowing.
That's a conflict of interest right there.
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Old 04-06-2019, 04:17 PM   #20  
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You're forgetting one thing about union motives.

Most of them are close to flowing.
Whats the best way to ensure company doesnt start throttling the flow?
Yep. Make sure new hires are showing up, and that you dont end up in a ****list that prevents you from flowing.
That's a conflict of interest right there.
The chairman flows at the end of the year. The EA and Vice Chair are in the L10-11 group and have a while to go.
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