Attrition
12-15-2019 | 07:45 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 108
Likes: 0
Classes are full (yes 20-30 is what they want, remember the 2016-2017 hiring wave with classes of 30-60, training was backed up, people sat in no mans land on RSV for months, new FO’s were having to get extensions because they couldn’t even consolidate their 100 hours), recruiters aren’t wasting their time on APC... They’re too busy flying the 175 into Riddle, Purdue, etc. That’s where recruitment happens, not here.
12-15-2019 | 07:48 AM
#32
On Reserve
Joined: Oct 2017
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: FO
Here the actual attrition numbers:
Lets compare flow plan 19-13 dated OCT 15 2019 and flow plan 19-15 dated DEC 13 2019. Thats about 2 months between each.
Junior NFE went from 2389 to 2293
Junior DCL went from 1185 to 1108
A random pilot OCL sub 1000s went from 792 to 721.
A new hire moved up 96 numbers in 2 months.
A junior DCL moved up 77 numbers in 2 months
A senior OCL moved up 71 numbers in 2 months
the company sent to AA 58 pilots in 2 months via the flow.
Even the senior OCL had 13 people senior to him/her leave outside the flow in this 2 month period.
Lets compare flow plan 19-13 dated OCT 15 2019 and flow plan 19-15 dated DEC 13 2019. Thats about 2 months between each.
Junior NFE went from 2389 to 2293
Junior DCL went from 1185 to 1108
A random pilot OCL sub 1000s went from 792 to 721.
A new hire moved up 96 numbers in 2 months.
A junior DCL moved up 77 numbers in 2 months
A senior OCL moved up 71 numbers in 2 months
the company sent to AA 58 pilots in 2 months via the flow.
Even the senior OCL had 13 people senior to him/her leave outside the flow in this 2 month period.
12-15-2019 | 08:43 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 12
Here the actual attrition numbers:
Lets compare flow plan 19-13 dated OCT 15 2019 and flow plan 19-15 dated DEC 13 2019. Thats about 2 months between each.
Junior NFE went from 2389 to 2293
Junior DCL went from 1185 to 1108
A random pilot OCL sub 1000s went from 792 to 721.
A new hire moved up 96 numbers in 2 months.
A junior DCL moved up 77 numbers in 2 months
A senior OCL moved up 71 numbers in 2 months
the company sent to AA 58 pilots in 2 months via the flow.
Even the senior OCL had 13 people senior to him/her leave outside the flow in this 2 month period.
Lets compare flow plan 19-13 dated OCT 15 2019 and flow plan 19-15 dated DEC 13 2019. Thats about 2 months between each.
Junior NFE went from 2389 to 2293
Junior DCL went from 1185 to 1108
A random pilot OCL sub 1000s went from 792 to 721.
A new hire moved up 96 numbers in 2 months.
A junior DCL moved up 77 numbers in 2 months
A senior OCL moved up 71 numbers in 2 months
the company sent to AA 58 pilots in 2 months via the flow.
Even the senior OCL had 13 people senior to him/her leave outside the flow in this 2 month period.
It remains to be seen if this will be sustained though. I have to wonder if the AIP fiasco over the summer caused a lot of lazy pilots to update their apps triggering interviews in the fall.
12-15-2019 | 08:54 AM
#34
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
I'm guessing the two retirements mentioned earlier were lifers which had no effect on flow so it's really 11 over two months (and those two retirements mentioned were just for the one month, they're may be more to be considered), or about 5.5/mo over the two month period. I think that's pretty good but it will take nearly four straight months of that to effect the month you flow if you are past your first 3 years.
It remains to be seen if this will be sustained though. I have to wonder if the AIP fiasco over the summer caused a lot of lazy pilots to update their apps triggering interviews in the fall.
It remains to be seen if this will be sustained though. I have to wonder if the AIP fiasco over the summer caused a lot of lazy pilots to update their apps triggering interviews in the fall.
I ran some rough numbers, and the most attrition seems to happen between 500 and 1200.
12-15-2019 | 09:11 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 218
Likes: 0
Sounds like company math. Invisible magic attrition. Dude above literally did the math to prove the opposite. Also, since I have been here about 3 years, how please enlighten me on how competitive I am. And not at Frontier, Atlas, etc. With less 2500TT, I can’t even put in an app at Southwest until the end of the month. If recruiting doesn’t have you on payroll yet then they are really missing out.
12-15-2019 | 09:27 AM
#36
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,070
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
Sounds like company math. Invisible magic attrition. Dude above literally did the math to prove the opposite. Also, since I have been here about 3 years, how please enlighten me on how competitive I am. And not at Frontier, Atlas, etc. With less 2500TT, I can’t even put in an app at Southwest until the end of the month. If recruiting doesn’t have you on payroll yet then they are really missing out.
You're way below your peers with your flight time, just FYI.
And the dude above literally just proved what I said.
The new hire moved up 38 spots plus 58 for flow.
The 1000 seniority DCL went up 19 spots plus flow.
So you had the same number of pilots quit/leave with 0-1000 as 1000-2300. I'm not sure why you call this "invisible magic attrition", when that's exactly what numbers are telling you.
12-15-2019 | 09:40 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,171
Likes: 151
Sounds like company math. Invisible magic attrition. Dude above literally did the math to prove the opposite. Also, since I have been here about 3 years, how please enlighten me on how competitive I am. And not at Frontier, Atlas, etc. With less 2500TT, I can’t even put in an app at Southwest until the end of the month. If recruiting doesn’t have you on payroll yet then they are really missing out.
I know several people who are leaving for LCC’s and are happy to do it. Your idea of an endgame doesn’t mean that everyone’s will be the same.
12-16-2019 | 04:22 AM
#40
Line Holder
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
5yr flow according to Pedro
Envoy Air, based in Irving, is the carrier’s largest subsidiary and will send more than 300 pilots to American this year. Envoy’s chief executive, Pedro Fábregas, is proud of the constant flow of pilots that come through his airline and make their way to American.
“Pilots come to work for me because in five years, they’re going to be pilots at American,” Fábregas told the Dallas Business Journal in October. “We hire the best of the best. And if American wants to hire the best of the best from me? That’s good. That’s the way it works.”
Despite the constant flow of pilots to the mainline carrier and other regional carriers feeling the pressure from the shortage, Fábregas said Envoy doesn’t have a pilot shortage. There was softness back in 2015 but for the last couple of years, “the classes are full,” he said.
“Pilots come to work for me because in five years, they’re going to be pilots at American,” Fábregas told the Dallas Business Journal in October. “We hire the best of the best. And if American wants to hire the best of the best from me? That’s good. That’s the way it works.”
Despite the constant flow of pilots to the mainline carrier and other regional carriers feeling the pressure from the shortage, Fábregas said Envoy doesn’t have a pilot shortage. There was softness back in 2015 but for the last couple of years, “the classes are full,” he said.
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