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Cujo665 01-02-2021 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by ClappedOut145 (Post 3176828)
Not just seats. APA scope does not allow anything to be operated by someone else if it has an MTOW of 86,000 lbs. The A220 would have to be re-certified as a new variant like the CRJ 550 was.

operated in passenger configuration... ?
Or on codeshare?
How exactly is that worded? No copy handy
Mesa is running 737 cargo now in addition to AA feed

rickair7777 01-02-2021 03:55 PM


Originally Posted by ClappedOut145 (Post 3176828)
Not just seats. APA scope does not allow anything to be operated by someone else if it has an MTOW of 86,000 lbs. The A220 would have to be re-certified as a new variant like the CRJ 550 was.

Not happening. MGTOW is something like 150K, waaay to much airplane to cap at 86K.

pangolin 01-03-2021 06:23 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3177336)
Not happening. MGTOW is something like 150K, waaay to much airplane to cap at 86K.

Eventually this will break one way or the other. Either regional lift will get a weight increase or it'll all be brought into mainline. The Embraer E2 aircraft are just too attractive from a fuel efficiency standpoint. Once fuel prices increase again (and they will) or carbon footprints become even more important (and they will) and demand increases (and it will), something will have to give one way or the other. I make no bets on which way the domino falls, except to say it WILL fall.

Hedley 01-03-2021 06:55 AM


Originally Posted by pangolin (Post 3177455)
Eventually this will break one way or the other. Either regional lift will get a weight increase or it'll all be brought into mainline. The Embraer E2 aircraft are just too attractive from a fuel efficiency standpoint. Once fuel prices increase again (and they will) or carbon footprints become even more important (and they will) and demand increases (and it will), something will have to give one way or the other. I make no bets on which way the domino falls, except to say it WILL fall.

The new emphasis of the carbon footprint definitely adds an interesting factor to the equation. Cost is still king, but if they can get some environmental PR at the same time, that is the path that they’ll take. The carbon footprint issue could also be another nail in the coffin for the 50 seaters. I don’t see the legacies relaxing scope, so where we go from here is anyone’s guess. Do the aircraft manufacturers come up with an efficient plane that meets the weight limits, or does the industry shift towards larger more efficient aircraft operated at the legacies? Time to watch another swing of the pendulum.

pangolin 01-03-2021 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by coodrough568 (Post 3177545)
we don’t want them relaxing scope. Also I see AA and any other legacy that owns current 175s running them like AA is doing the 140s. Until they have been long paid off. There is zero chance AA, which is capped on 76 seaters to start parking current 175s and getting E2’s. By the time they could even afford that the E2 will be outdated. Maybe when the E3’s come out... but like I mentioned, we want tighter scope not more relaxed.

What we want often has little to do with what we get. But this is soon to be at a tipping point.

Cyio 01-03-2021 12:10 PM


Originally Posted by coodrough568 (Post 3177551)
mainline pilots don’t want to relax scope either. Only management. Depends what they offer/threaten to take away if they don’t agree to relax scope. But that’s not even being negotiated right now

Agree 100%, relaxing scope would just further doom us all to longer regional careers.

Hedley 01-03-2021 12:50 PM


Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 3177553)
Agree 100%, relaxing scope would just further doom us all to longer regional careers.

Scope isn’t going to get relaxed. The bulk of the seniority list of any legacy is made up of people who rode out the lost decade either stagnate or furloughed while watching the regionals expand, or those who were stuck at the regionals with nowhere to go. The 76 seaters are scoped out and as the 50 seaters age and get phased out, the only currently available replacement option is higher paying legacy jobs. The other side of the coin is that more regional jobs will be lost than those created at the legacies, so the transition won’t be fun for everyone.

Finessed 01-03-2021 01:13 PM


Originally Posted by Hedley (Post 3177557)
Scope isn’t going to get relaxed. The bulk of the seniority list of any legacy is made up of people who rode out the lost decade either stagnate or furloughed while watching the regionals expand, or those who were stuck at the regionals with nowhere to go. The 76 seaters are scoped out and as the 50 seaters age and get phased out, the only currently available replacement option is higher paying legacy jobs. The other side of the coin is that more regional jobs will be lost than those created at the legacies, so the transition won’t be fun for everyone.

I’m currently employed at a “legacy”, you’re talking straight out of your a$$. Scope relief will be negotiated to the benefit of both parties. Management keeps everything tight lipped at DL, but if relief isn’t dealt with accordingly they’ll pull a UA move and dance around the agreement as they have on multiple occasions in the past. Personally as a commuter I’d personally hope to never sit in an RJ200 again. Ed said the 50 seater is dead, probably means as we speak that statement is being negotiated between ALPA and Management.


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