Envoy 2021: A New Hope
 

Happy New Year all!

Let us start this thread off with a juicy one. A220’s confirmed at the end of 2022.

Yes Happy New Year to all and LAX base opening early third quarter. :D

At least pick something that doesn’t completely **** all over scope clause at AA.

76 lie flats, removing the CRJ-900 from the fleet, giving the 145’s to Mesa. Solved!

Not just seats. APA scope does not allow anything to be operated by someone else if it has an MTOW of 86,000 lbs. The A220 would have to be re-certified as a new variant like the CRJ 550 was.

Unless it is in flying given to other airlines in the form of Joint Venture/ Code share...

Which is how JetBlue is getting Envoys NYC flying and an LAX base.

They would never allow that.

Oh wait. They just did.

It’s not flown as AA though with AA colors. JV’s are the new fad. Look at SkyTeam. They are doing them like crazy.

Wouldn’t it be interesting for Pedro to take a page from Mesa and do it right instead of halfassed

Put 75 & 76 cargo Ops into operation. Does scope even cover ACMI type operations? Haven’t looked at the APA CBA lately but I Doubt it, or Mesa wouldn’t be running 737’s....

single type rating, training program and pilot group for both narrow & widebody cargo.

the next greatest flow... get hired in an RJ, 1 year as FO, 2 years as CA, then go to 757/767 Cargo for 3 more years, then flow to AA....

operated in passenger configuration... ?
Or on codeshare?
How exactly is that worded? No copy handy
Mesa is running 737 cargo now in addition to AA feed

Not happening. MGTOW is something like 150K, waaay to much airplane to cap at 86K.

Eventually this will break one way or the other. Either regional lift will get a weight increase or it'll all be brought into mainline. The Embraer E2 aircraft are just too attractive from a fuel efficiency standpoint. Once fuel prices increase again (and they will) or carbon footprints become even more important (and they will) and demand increases (and it will), something will have to give one way or the other. I make no bets on which way the domino falls, except to say it WILL fall.

The new emphasis of the carbon footprint definitely adds an interesting factor to the equation. Cost is still king, but if they can get some environmental PR at the same time, that is the path that they’ll take. The carbon footprint issue could also be another nail in the coffin for the 50 seaters. I don’t see the legacies relaxing scope, so where we go from here is anyone’s guess. Do the aircraft manufacturers come up with an efficient plane that meets the weight limits, or does the industry shift towards larger more efficient aircraft operated at the legacies? Time to watch another swing of the pendulum.

What we want often has little to do with what we get. But this is soon to be at a tipping point.

Agree 100%, relaxing scope would just further doom us all to longer regional careers.

Scope isn’t going to get relaxed. The bulk of the seniority list of any legacy is made up of people who rode out the lost decade either stagnate or furloughed while watching the regionals expand, or those who were stuck at the regionals with nowhere to go. The 76 seaters are scoped out and as the 50 seaters age and get phased out, the only currently available replacement option is higher paying legacy jobs. The other side of the coin is that more regional jobs will be lost than those created at the legacies, so the transition won’t be fun for everyone.

I’m currently employed at a “legacy”, you’re talking straight out of your a$$. Scope relief will be negotiated to the benefit of both parties. Management keeps everything tight lipped at DL, but if relief isn’t dealt with accordingly they’ll pull a UA move and dance around the agreement as they have on multiple occasions in the past. Personally as a commuter I’d personally hope to never sit in an RJ200 again. Ed said the 50 seater is dead, probably means as we speak that statement is being negotiated between ALPA and Management.

I’m fairly senior at a legacy. I don’t know about Delta, but our union wants to only tighten scope. The company came to us with the offer for more pay and additional current NB aircraft orders rather than the requirement to buy another fleet type in exchange for more rj’s. We told them to pound sand. Scope is the big issue that held up our contract negotiations before COVID hit. On the 777, most everyone was too senior to be negatively affected by allowing more rj’s, but here the practically unanimous concessions was that the company doesn’t get one more big rj unless they buy another fleet type, or if we fly them. At Delta, the 50 seater is dead and the company has a better product due to the additional 175’s that were allowed from bringing on the 717, and now the far superior A220. As our 50 seaters go away, Kirby can either replace that with additional 737/320’s, or buy another fleet type and unlock additional 76 seaters just like Delta did. He has his options, he doesn’t like them, but we are not negotiating relaxing scope.

Just talking out of my ass here but what new NB would qualify that would work? Airbus can’t build enough 220s.

Here’s the contract definition:

“New Small Narrowbody Aircraft” means a CS100, E190, or E195 aircraft, provided that such aircraft is neither in the company fleet as of the date of this signing of this agreement no acquired through merger or acquisition of another carrier..

United can wait in line for the 220, or possibly the 195 E2. I really don’t know how long the backlog is on anything is since every manufacturer has faced cancellations and delays. Even if the company were to go with something that doesn’t qualify such as the Max 7, I have no idea when the delivery dates would be. My guess is that the shortest delivery schedule would come from the E195 E2??

We’ve got management right where we want them.

Exactly, I’m not going to get in a debate over an UA scope. I have nothing but respect for there union standing strong against “relaxing” scope, but it sounds like nothing but bitterness to me, and it costed the pilot group a lot of money from what it sounds like. Mandatory retirement is 65, so every year and pay raise counts.

All I will say is holding the stronger hand and not playing it, which resulted in nothing on both sides, now looks foolish. Now the Union’s walking in with a 4, 2 card still trying to play hard ball.

Good luck

Right the union has upper hand, please you crack me up. Covid 19 losses, justifiable bankruptcy with scope change plus pay cuts, is the scenario to be played out. Just an opinion

A220s (100 and 300j

Latest on Wikipedia (take it for what its worth)

Delivered 137
Backlog 494

I believe “Captive Apple” was being sarcastic. Read his post as sarcasm then read my reply and you’ll see I’m in no way giving any Union the edge in today’s atmosphere.

So is it just EM waving the white flag on Covid policy, or the LEC? First time I’ve seen a rep surrender because of, “constant rule changes.”

TH Splooj has us salivating over a “nice warm surprise”... PHX? LAX? MFE? The hotel bathroom after the free taco bar?

Cmon what’s the scuttlebutt people?

just a guess - currently there are about 50% ppl needed for the planned MIA ops holding that base, so it's probably going to double. Affecting like 5% of the pilot group. Woohoo.

you joined 2 days before THBoob got banned.....


who is you-??

Woah woah woah, the splooge got banned? What happened?!?!?!

No worries guys. I'm still here.

Republic's griping over losing the MIA base to Envoy 175 on April 1st. The writing was on the wall once ENY started the ETOPS process for their 175s

I've been telling you guys this for a while now. Maybe next time you'll listen.

Like the LA base we opened last year? Or the PHL one?

Troll

I’m guessing he only got a temporary ban for..... you know....lies, trolling and personal attacks. Last time I responded to him his name said banned so I dunno. Maybe now he will actually respond to my questions. (Yeah right)

wonder what he did with his time off. I’m guessing lots of hot pockets and screaming at his mom.

ETOPS? You mean EOW? Rookie.

ETOPS 370 is coming to the Voy. You didn't hear? Just like the A350.