Man reading this just makes me sad. There’s nothing like being taken advantage of when trying to do someone a favor.

Yeah this past week was a complete failure of leadership from this company. Not only did they at one point just completely give up and say every man/women for themselves, but they also acted deceptively at times, punitive at others and once again tried to use fear as a motivator.

This company has showed over the years that it doesn't care for its employees, it runs not on trust and mutual respect but though oppressive, fear based management. I actually had to jump seat this week on two separate occasions, on two separate mainline operations, one being AA. When I was telling the pilots all of the things that went down over the last seven days, they were all shocked, expressed how not only would their management not try these things, but their pilot group would essentially tell them to pound sand.

As many of us have said over the years, this isnt the place to come to if you have any of the things airlines want ie, clean history, no dui and an education. The flow is useless for the foreseeable future, just as our MEC. There needs to be major leadership changes at this company before I could in good faith suggest it as a place to work for.

The worst part of all this, unless I have missed it, is that we haven't heard a peep from the CEO or RW, perhaps they fled to Cancun.

Major thanks to all the low level people that banded together to get things working again and help their fellow employees.

I've been posting for years that management has contempt for us here. A lot of us get sheltered from it (mostly on the 175, particularly in Dallas).

I won't deny that I'm glad to be publicly proven right again, sad that it has been at personal cost to many of my colleagues.

Since you haven't spent a day in the service as far as I can tell (dressing up for reenactments on the weekends doesn't count), you might have missed a valuable leadership lesson. Leaders take care of their subordinates (chow, hotels, whatever). Leaders put themselves last after everything else is accomplished ("Mission, men, me" was beat into my head). Leaders keep their people informed and motivated, regardless of the circumstances. What happened this week is a leadership failure, plain and simple.

It's telling that here we are on Friday with zero commo from higher except "fend for yourselves and good luck." The culture is broken here, which is nothing new, but this week brings it sharply into focus. Why you, or anyone else, defends that is beyond reason.

wtf is RW or pedro gonna come out and say??
“now, more than ever, thank you”
low level leaders execute, as they hsve been doing. DFW CPO is feeding and sheltering, i dont need some worthless “stay warm attaboy” from the higher ups, theyre all just talking heads up there anyway.

The silence coming from them is deafening...

So why do you bring that up? I've never claimed "military service" as I have a military background only. The ONLY reason that was ever brought up is that I personally felt the RTP guys that were hired through that program were very overrated and the program was a waste of money. These guys came into the program, not all of them mind you but a whole lot. Many had arrogant attitudes and proceeded to struggle and after being hand held and coddled. They made it to the line and I would see it over and over that after a year of experience or so many were bailing for "other opportunities."

I referenced my military background comparing myself to them, I know it's somewhat different, but I felt I could speak out on it due to my personal background. It was very apparent at the time that the cadets were flying circles around these guys and I made a statement on it. As for leadership today, sure, there are occasionally breakdowns in the chain. That's normal, especially in an unprecedented weather event, but they get fixed and that's what is happening in this particular situation.

What’s the difference between military background and military service??

I've explained this on another forum of which I'm sure you read my explanation. However, for the benefit of some here, I'll briefly cover it again. As mentioned already, I personally had issues with the RTP program. Because these guys were military, and in order to criticize this position, I felt I could share and relate my own experience as a Vietnam War re-enactor to have some leg to stand on in understanding where these guys were coming from. I spent over 6 months as a re-enactor in some of the most real life scenarios imaginable. I was assigned to an Army unit and became extremely familiar with all things Army as everything was replicated perfectly, right down to military issue boots. So, there's your background. It's more than many Americans have who have no military service.

I commend these RTP guys for their service, however, they were not what Envoy needed. As mentioned, they took a slot away from a highly trained cadet. Cadets had the highest evaluation marks and pass rate in the history of Envoy by the way. As said, the RTP guy would come in and get his or her hand held through the program, make it online, and struggle afterward for quite some time. When they got the hang of it and built some hours, they usually would bail for some legacy as their military service checked some special box or something over there. I voiced my concern over and over but the program was kept afloat until the pandemic began. Hopefully now we have seen the last of RTP.

https://i.ibb.co/CwLFwdG/0-D0085-C5-...78-A0-C6-D.jpg


military background: I was obnoxious enough as a teenager that my folks sent me to one of those military boot camps out on the arse end of nowhere run by old retired Marine gunnery sergeants to drill some sense into me.

https://i.ibb.co/JHXnmmp/76-EDA7-FF-...85-DC805-D.jpg

military service: I was actually a contributing member IN the US military service.

it ain’t the same thing.

I’ve played COD on 4K with surround sound and that is pretty realistic. Does that count as having a military background too?

LMAO you’re basically an operator. I mean if we use the stooges logic anyways.

Time to update the apps lol. :cool:

Just let the military know, BUD/S and Q School are obsolete.

thank you for your service

Having real Army boots, definitely gives you perspective into what’s it’s like making life or death decisions in combat. They are TOTALLY the same thing.

He's a troll. Obviously needs a psych eval for spending this amount of time trolling. Don't his posts go back like 10 years on the other forum?

Anyone hear from Frontier?

Military service=actual risk of life and liberties.
Military background=Not so much. You’ve SEEN people in uniform.

It’s always been clear, now more than ever, that splooge is a sociopath who should honestly be reported to AA for his numerous social media violations and his clear mental health issues. This guy should not be in an airplane. He’s the biggest troll of them all and his stupidity and mental issues are just his way of trying to get a rise out of everyone. I think it’s fairly clear that his comparison is truly only intended to **** people off and keep the forums alive now that he’s furloughed.

I’m Mesa. He’s not wrong on RTP vs Cadets.

Yes he is. I have flown with both. There is no discernible difference between the two. I haven’t even seen the RTP folks move on any quicker either. They have to compete with the same air force and navy pilots we do.

From what I understand their first round of invitations for interviews were only for those who had it canceled last year due to COVID. I think they will eventually get around to the first time applicants

Cadets are gonna come from a wide variety of flight training centers, ranging from Embry Riddle & UND to ATP and some random 61 operations. I think it goes without saying that the guys/gals coming out of highly accredited universities taking classes on High Speed Aerodynamics, Human factors, gas turbine engines, flight physiology, and essentially CRJ ground and SIM training are probably more set up for success then the guys at the 0 to hero in one year programs are gonna be. Not a knock to anyone who trained that way, because I've flown with plenty of great pilots that came up through that route. Cadets coming out of 141 Uni's are probably just as ready for training as any RTP guys, and I genuinely don't think there's enough cadets to prevent any off the street guys from getting interviews when things eventually begin to come around.

Yeah seems to be what going on, I heard new applicants might hear back by next week.

There may be a difference in cadets. Mesa cadets come with caravan PIC time. These are the guys I find better than the RTP pilots.

Surely, you can't be serious?

What he’s trying to say is that RTP’s are more highly sought after than cadets.

RTP guys have way better study habits than cadets do ironically. The military culture seems to use requiring obscene amounts of rote memorization as a way to weed people out. In terms of actual stick and rudder skill, I guess a minority of RTP guys had issues in the beginning but that's what happens when you have 300 hrs in airplanes. The ones I've flown with have average or better skills and excellent judgment/adm in my opinion. and it probably wasn't any better before the 1500 hr rule.

They do suck on the radio though. Just read back how you're getting to ALPHA then say "bridge route" guys.

If TheKooj is a troll, you do have to give him credit on the long game.

his trolling spans several screen names across multiple sites. He’s been banned here as well. Hard for mods to keep up with someone that has absolutely no life and nothing but time on their hands.

Not an RTP but if ATC doesn’t say “bridge route” I’m not going to read back “bridge route.”

ORD how about the pez route from the pez tower

Just say "Roger" and look to your left and say "What'd he say?".

yeah so just sit there silently looking confused while I read back bridge route and drive the tricycle, so much better.

or I’ll just read back what ATC says and make sure you turn down the correct bridge. Been doin this a while buddy, no need to act like you’re any better than anyone because you’ve been at this company longer.

This might be the funniest thing I’ve ever seen on APC.

The imagination, the arrogance, the AUDACITY :eek:

Bravo, sir :D

Wow, I could have skipped basic and AIT. All those runs, and push ups, and endless classes on tactics. Skipped the months of helicopter maintenance training. I could have skipped jump school and the fear of a broken ankle on every jump. Skipped Air Assault school and the rappelling from a helicopter and the twelve mile ruck march. And SERE level C with the evading, eating whatever we could find, drinking iodine water and the very realistic POW experience. And dunker training. And the joys of Desert Shield and Desert Storm with the horrible shots we had to take including the frozen one that left a huge lump on your ass for a week, and the depleted Uranium rounds making some of us sick (I was lucky, no effects yet).

All I had to do was go to a surplus store and buy some web gear and boots, and spend a few weekends doing some reenactments to get my military experience and cred? I must be stupid.

Yeah. The military issue boots is all it takes to have a “military background” apparently.

Wish I would’ve thought about that before going to the recruiter to volunteer. That’s genius stuff right there. Promote ahead of peers. In fact, you should go join up at your local American Legion post because you’re a genuine veteran now.