Pilot Recruiting
09-25-2021, 10:04 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: E-175 CA
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by eligible2flow
It's not separate. They're using the same word "earn" as it's used in the retention bonus. Did you already forget that recruiting is telling new hires we have min day credit?
09-25-2021, 11:02 AM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Bassman1985
You earn the retention bonus by upgrading to captain and then either flowing to AA or declining flow and staying at Envoy. You earn the new-hire bonus by completing training. They state that clearly. New hire bonuses have been one thing they have never lied about in my 5.5 years at this company. Word would spread pretty fast if that turned out to be a lie. ALPA would be one of the loudest voices sounding the alarm.
09-25-2021, 11:05 AM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Originally Posted by Bassman1985
Curious, how do you know it’s false advertising? I’ve seen zero communication from the union or the company stating that they’re not separate. The retention bonus LOA applies to all pilots hired before the end of 2022. Are new hires being required to sign a contract waiving that in order to get the 182.5k?
09-25-2021, 11:07 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by Cujo665
Not sure where you're obtaining that number; or why you'd even believe it.
Everyone should have an app in once they hit about 750 hours with their regional, and update regularly as they upgrade and start accumulating TPIC time. Update it every 2 weeks.
09-25-2021, 11:26 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by TransWorld
Separately, I have been saying what you are saying for years. I said regionals will have half (10,000 whereas we have 20,000 today) the number of pilots and one fourth the number of regional airlines in a few years. When I predicted that, I was called stupid. I think reality is about to catch up to my predictions.
For easy math, let's say there is a fictions airline that has 1000 actual line captains (with medical, not on leave, and actually flying every month.) Then, in a 5 month span, they lose 200 captains (40 per month). The airline will start to park airplanes because they can not staff the flying. Thus, fewer FOs will be needed. They will do everything that they can to hire street captains and to upgrade all of the FOs that are eligible. Huge bonuses for street captains (as you see now at several carriers) will pop up, and the airlines will do everything that they can to prevent pilots from leaving (huge retention bonuses, as you see now).
Then they lose another 200.
Then another 200.
The attrition will be faster than FO's can fly 1000 hours and upgrade to captain.
Think about it. It takes at least 2 years of busy flying to really become a captain (initial training, IOE, building time, then upgrade training, OE). In the matter of 1 year, the regionals could lose +6000 captains, and at 18 months, lose closer to 10,000. Losing captains that aren't replaced means fewer flights, which means fewer FO's building time, which means fewer FO's eligible to upgrade in the future. It is a vicious cycle.
If the regionals lose 10,000 pilots to the majors, they will be much smaller than 1/2 the size that they are now. They might be a 1/4 of the size. The cycle has already started, as is evident by the huge retention and street captain bonuses.
09-25-2021, 04:11 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2012
Position: E-175 CA
Posts: 339
Originally Posted by pitchattitude
Show me a screen shot of where it says they are separate and outlines WHAT makes up the bonus.
”A. Pilot Retention and Bonus Program:
1. The Company will establish the Envoy Pilot Retention and Bonus Program (the “Program”). The effective date of the Program shall be September 1, 2021 (the “Effective Date”). Only pilots who are on the Envoy pilot seniority list as of the Effective Date and pilots hired by Envoy and added to the Envoy pilot seniority list on or before December 31, 2022, shall be eligible to participate in the Program. Pilots who are added to the Envoy pilot seniority list after December 31, 2022 (i.e., on January 1, 2023 or later), are not eligible to participate in the Program. Envoy, however, may extend the deadline for participation in the Program at its sole discretion.
2. The Program allows eligible pilots who satisfy the Program’s requirements as set forth in this Agreement to receive up to a maximum of $150,000. Under no circumstance shall any Envoy pilot be eligible to receive a total sum greater than $150,000 under the terms of the Program. In order to be eligible to receive any payment under the terms of this Program, an Envoy pilot must satisfy all requirements applicable to such payment and also be employed by Envoy and on the Envoy pilot seniority list on the date such payment is made.”
Do you see any mention of the new-hire bonus program there? The company’s careers page (which I already linked in a previous post) states that new hires can receive 182.5k PLUS the 150k retention bonuses. Show me the screenshot that shows they’re NOT separate.
09-25-2021, 04:57 PM
#47
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2021
Posts: 45
Originally Posted by Bassman1985
Try the page I already linked. The LOA states this:
”A. Pilot Retention and Bonus Program:
1. The Company will establish the Envoy Pilot Retention and Bonus Program (the “Program”). The effective date of the Program shall be September 1, 2021 (the “Effective Date”). Only pilots who are on the Envoy pilot seniority list as of the Effective Date and pilots hired by Envoy and added to the Envoy pilot seniority list on or before December 31, 2022, shall be eligible to participate in the Program. Pilots who are added to the Envoy pilot seniority list after December 31, 2022 (i.e., on January 1, 2023 or later), are not eligible to participate in the Program. Envoy, however, may extend the deadline for participation in the Program at its sole discretion.
2. The Program allows eligible pilots who satisfy the Program’s requirements as set forth in this Agreement to receive up to a maximum of $150,000. Under no circumstance shall any Envoy pilot be eligible to receive a total sum greater than $150,000 under the terms of the Program. In order to be eligible to receive any payment under the terms of this Program, an Envoy pilot must satisfy all requirements applicable to such payment and also be employed by Envoy and on the Envoy pilot seniority list on the date such payment is made.”
Do you see any mention of the new-hire bonus program there? The company’s careers page (which I already linked in a previous post) states that new hires can receive 182.5k PLUS the 150k retention bonuses. Show me the screenshot that shows they’re NOT separate.
”A. Pilot Retention and Bonus Program:
1. The Company will establish the Envoy Pilot Retention and Bonus Program (the “Program”). The effective date of the Program shall be September 1, 2021 (the “Effective Date”). Only pilots who are on the Envoy pilot seniority list as of the Effective Date and pilots hired by Envoy and added to the Envoy pilot seniority list on or before December 31, 2022, shall be eligible to participate in the Program. Pilots who are added to the Envoy pilot seniority list after December 31, 2022 (i.e., on January 1, 2023 or later), are not eligible to participate in the Program. Envoy, however, may extend the deadline for participation in the Program at its sole discretion.
2. The Program allows eligible pilots who satisfy the Program’s requirements as set forth in this Agreement to receive up to a maximum of $150,000. Under no circumstance shall any Envoy pilot be eligible to receive a total sum greater than $150,000 under the terms of the Program. In order to be eligible to receive any payment under the terms of this Program, an Envoy pilot must satisfy all requirements applicable to such payment and also be employed by Envoy and on the Envoy pilot seniority list on the date such payment is made.”
Do you see any mention of the new-hire bonus program there? The company’s careers page (which I already linked in a previous post) states that new hires can receive 182.5k PLUS the 150k retention bonuses. Show me the screenshot that shows they’re NOT separate.
09-25-2021, 05:31 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Originally Posted by Bassman1985
Try the page I already linked. The LOA states this:
”A. Pilot Retention and Bonus Program:
1. The Company will establish the Envoy Pilot Retention and Bonus Program (the “Program”). The effective date of the Program shall be September 1, 2021 (the “Effective Date”). Only pilots who are on the Envoy pilot seniority list as of the Effective Date and pilots hired by Envoy and added to the Envoy pilot seniority list on or before December 31, 2022, shall be eligible to participate in the Program. Pilots who are added to the Envoy pilot seniority list after December 31, 2022 (i.e., on January 1, 2023 or later), are not eligible to participate in the Program. Envoy, however, may extend the deadline for participation in the Program at its sole discretion.
2. The Program allows eligible pilots who satisfy the Program’s requirements as set forth in this Agreement to receive up to a maximum of $150,000. Under no circumstance shall any Envoy pilot be eligible to receive a total sum greater than $150,000 under the terms of the Program. In order to be eligible to receive any payment under the terms of this Program, an Envoy pilot must satisfy all requirements applicable to such payment and also be employed by Envoy and on the Envoy pilot seniority list on the date such payment is made.”
Do you see any mention of the new-hire bonus program there? The company’s careers page (which I already linked in a previous post) states that new hires can receive 182.5k PLUS the 150k retention bonuses. Show me the screenshot that shows they’re NOT separate.
”A. Pilot Retention and Bonus Program:
1. The Company will establish the Envoy Pilot Retention and Bonus Program (the “Program”). The effective date of the Program shall be September 1, 2021 (the “Effective Date”). Only pilots who are on the Envoy pilot seniority list as of the Effective Date and pilots hired by Envoy and added to the Envoy pilot seniority list on or before December 31, 2022, shall be eligible to participate in the Program. Pilots who are added to the Envoy pilot seniority list after December 31, 2022 (i.e., on January 1, 2023 or later), are not eligible to participate in the Program. Envoy, however, may extend the deadline for participation in the Program at its sole discretion.
2. The Program allows eligible pilots who satisfy the Program’s requirements as set forth in this Agreement to receive up to a maximum of $150,000. Under no circumstance shall any Envoy pilot be eligible to receive a total sum greater than $150,000 under the terms of the Program. In order to be eligible to receive any payment under the terms of this Program, an Envoy pilot must satisfy all requirements applicable to such payment and also be employed by Envoy and on the Envoy pilot seniority list on the date such payment is made.”
Do you see any mention of the new-hire bonus program there? The company’s careers page (which I already linked in a previous post) states that new hires can receive 182.5k PLUS the 150k retention bonuses. Show me the screenshot that shows they’re NOT separate.
The LOA says nothing about a new hire bonus because that LOA applies to those who are seniority list pilots, not new hires.
No where does anything define what comprises the “$182.5K” or when you will receive it…. Because part of it is the $150K that is part of the new LOA.
Dude, believe what you want. You’re wrong. Not going to waste any more time trying to convince you now, you’ll figure it out later, as will anyone else foolish enough to believe your spin.
09-25-2021, 08:48 PM
#49
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,477
Originally Posted by Bassman1985
Try the page I already linked. The LOA states this:
”A. Pilot Retention and Bonus Program:
1. The Company will establish the Envoy Pilot Retention and Bonus Program (the “Program”). The effective date of the Program shall be September 1, 2021 (the “Effective Date”). Only pilots who are on the Envoy pilot seniority list as of the Effective Date and pilots hired by Envoy and added to the Envoy pilot seniority list on or before December 31, 2022, shall be eligible to participate in the Program. Pilots who are added to the Envoy pilot seniority list after December 31, 2022 (i.e., on January 1, 2023 or later), are not eligible to participate in the Program. Envoy, however, may extend the deadline for participation in the Program at its sole discretion.
2. The Program allows eligible pilots who satisfy the Program’s requirements as set forth in this Agreement to receive up to a maximum of $150,000. Under no circumstance shall any Envoy pilot be eligible to receive a total sum greater than $150,000 under the terms of the Program. In order to be eligible to receive any payment under the terms of this Program, an Envoy pilot must satisfy all requirements applicable to such payment and also be employed by Envoy and on the Envoy pilot seniority list on the date such payment is made.”
Do you see any mention of the new-hire bonus program there? The company’s careers page (which I already linked in a previous post) states that new hires can receive 182.5k PLUS the 150k retention bonuses. Show me the screenshot that shows they’re NOT separate.
”A. Pilot Retention and Bonus Program:
1. The Company will establish the Envoy Pilot Retention and Bonus Program (the “Program”). The effective date of the Program shall be September 1, 2021 (the “Effective Date”). Only pilots who are on the Envoy pilot seniority list as of the Effective Date and pilots hired by Envoy and added to the Envoy pilot seniority list on or before December 31, 2022, shall be eligible to participate in the Program. Pilots who are added to the Envoy pilot seniority list after December 31, 2022 (i.e., on January 1, 2023 or later), are not eligible to participate in the Program. Envoy, however, may extend the deadline for participation in the Program at its sole discretion.
2. The Program allows eligible pilots who satisfy the Program’s requirements as set forth in this Agreement to receive up to a maximum of $150,000. Under no circumstance shall any Envoy pilot be eligible to receive a total sum greater than $150,000 under the terms of the Program. In order to be eligible to receive any payment under the terms of this Program, an Envoy pilot must satisfy all requirements applicable to such payment and also be employed by Envoy and on the Envoy pilot seniority list on the date such payment is made.”
Do you see any mention of the new-hire bonus program there? The company’s careers page (which I already linked in a previous post) states that new hires can receive 182.5k PLUS the 150k retention bonuses. Show me the screenshot that shows they’re NOT separate.
But I was just responding to a troll already at Envoy.
I probably know you, give me a high five next time, I will admit defeat.
09-26-2021, 08:36 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,135
Originally Posted by FlyGuy2021
The problem is that when you "half" the regionals, you are taking the top half off as the majority of the hires will be captains.
For easy math, let's say there is a fictions airline that has 1000 actual line captains (with medical, not on leave, and actually flying every month.) Then, in a 5 month span, they lose 200 captains (40 per month). The airline will start to park airplanes because they can not staff the flying. Thus, fewer FOs will be needed. They will do everything that they can to hire street captains and to upgrade all of the FOs that are eligible. Huge bonuses for street captains (as you see now at several carriers) will pop up, and the airlines will do everything that they can to prevent pilots from leaving (huge retention bonuses, as you see now).
Then they lose another 200.
Then another 200.
The attrition will be faster than FO's can fly 1000 hours and upgrade to captain.
Think about it. It takes at least 2 years of busy flying to really become a captain (initial training, IOE, building time, then upgrade training, OE). In the matter of 1 year, the regionals could lose +6000 captains, and at 18 months, lose closer to 10,000. Losing captains that aren't replaced means fewer flights, which means fewer FO's building time, which means fewer FO's eligible to upgrade in the future. It is a vicious cycle.
If the regionals lose 10,000 pilots to the majors, they will be much smaller than 1/2 the size that they are now. They might be a 1/4 of the size. The cycle has already started, as is evident by the huge retention and street captain bonuses.
For easy math, let's say there is a fictions airline that has 1000 actual line captains (with medical, not on leave, and actually flying every month.) Then, in a 5 month span, they lose 200 captains (40 per month). The airline will start to park airplanes because they can not staff the flying. Thus, fewer FOs will be needed. They will do everything that they can to hire street captains and to upgrade all of the FOs that are eligible. Huge bonuses for street captains (as you see now at several carriers) will pop up, and the airlines will do everything that they can to prevent pilots from leaving (huge retention bonuses, as you see now).
Then they lose another 200.
Then another 200.
The attrition will be faster than FO's can fly 1000 hours and upgrade to captain.
Think about it. It takes at least 2 years of busy flying to really become a captain (initial training, IOE, building time, then upgrade training, OE). In the matter of 1 year, the regionals could lose +6000 captains, and at 18 months, lose closer to 10,000. Losing captains that aren't replaced means fewer flights, which means fewer FO's building time, which means fewer FO's eligible to upgrade in the future. It is a vicious cycle.
If the regionals lose 10,000 pilots to the majors, they will be much smaller than 1/2 the size that they are now. They might be a 1/4 of the size. The cycle has already started, as is evident by the huge retention and street captain bonuses.
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