highfarfast

There are a lot of pilots at Envoy that agree with this. We generally call them lifers. Nothing wrong with that.

Regarding "skipping" or "delaying flow", I generally see it this way. If you're an older guy that was on the fence regarding staying or flowing, this new LOA might be enough to get you off the fence and be happy with the decision to stay. But if you intend to leave Envoy for another airline regardless, delaying seems shortsighted.

Cujo665

That is exactly what they’re hoping for. We told them back in 2014-2016 that it would be the lifers that kept the company flying when they can’t keep captains.
all they saw was how expensive the senior guys were. We asked them how expensive cancelled flights and planes sitting idle was…. covid gave them two years extra to smarten up.
they made the right move, were first to do it, but it was still later than it should have been. If they’d done it back in 2016, they’d have lots more people entering the profession who’d be ready to sign on the line right now. Instead they waited until it became a crisis. It will be another 2-3 years before the influx of people getting into the profession now are ready.

Twr199

Definitely always…it’s literally why some lifers won’t leave. eg days off, vacation, upgrade, equipment, training, schedule flexibility. The more senior you are the more $ you can make.

pitchattitude

You need to read my second post qualifying what I said and WHY I said it. My comment was in response to why you should LEAVE somewhere. Keeping the seniority you have is why people STAY. Gaining seniority somewhere else may not be worth losing what you have already.

snuffleupagus69

Oh my lord there is so much wrong with this statement there is no amount of time in the world worth correcting this archaic rant!
I mean honestly defending a model that has been broken since the old Pan Am/ Pan Am express days. Comair is rolling in its grave right now.

Cujo665

there was no defending anything. Management was the ones refusing to admit they’d destroyed their incubation system and that a crisis was coming.

TransWorld

So, we can play the blame game, ad infinitum. But we live in the reality of now. The question is what is the industry, both airlines and pilots, going to do, moving forward?

Otterbox

Thought you only get the maxed out pay scale early if you have “yes” selected on your flow preference. That’s the way it’s been presented at Piedmont.

pitchattitude

Yes, if you’re at Envoy and qualified as captain with no flow lock (one year after captain training) and completed five years with the company, they are bumping up to 20 year pay scale. Presently $213.75 per hour. That will hold until flow. If you delay flow, your rate goes back down to what ever your years of service is at that point, probably the 7 year scale, but still with the 50% premium until August 2024. Anyone who is an LCA, even if haven’t completed five years or flow lock (unlikely) still gets max pay at $20 year rate and keep that if they choose not to flow. But the 50% “pilot shortage premium” goes away August of 2024, and I have no doubt it will go away.

Cujo665

ive told you, same as I said years ago. This will lead to buyouts, mergers, bankruptcies and consolidations. The WO are able to run their regionals at a loss to keep the feed into/out of the hubs as long as it keeps those mainline flights filled. They can - and will - improve flow and I’d say they may go as high as 80%-85% of all hires come from their WO.
they could increase CPA FFD rates to keep their vendors able to staff, but I consider this unlikely without the other big two raising their FFD rates also….. it’s easier to just buy the company, planes, pilots, equipment and all before or during the bankruptcy.

I’ve been saying this since 2013 that we were around 5-6 years away from a crisis. Covid delayed it 2 years.

They’re going to need age 67, and to start not just paying more, but having significant improvements to working conditions. This modern generation can make $5k-$10k a month with various online sales and automated marketing stuff that I’ll admit I just don’t get. Why commute on days off to crashpads sitting airport standby after having spent $175k-$250k getting your ratings and experience to make less than $90k at the best paying regional, and around $40k at the worst.

there is also the possibility of merging mainline with a consolidated owned regional. With the rates they’re paying now it would be cheaper. Folks would also take the $90 an hour to fly the E175 as the entry level AA jet, because they’d be actual APA pilots instead of waiting to flow. The closer the costs get, the less attractive maintaining 4 separate administrations and training departments becomes. We almost sold them on single list back in 2013-2014; with some effort it should be a much easier sell now.