I would never base my career decision on an "if". History has a way of repeating itself, my guess is absolutely nothing comes of these talks. Management wants a system here which the pilot group is dead set against. Even if management were to propose an agreeable deal we have a sizeable group of pilots who will vote no on any deal just because they're upset and want to get back at the company.

I agree that the sky is probably not falling at Envoy. However, there are better choices than Envoy. As someone else said, some regionals are filling classes whether Envoy pilots want to believe that or not.

PSAs washout rate is not 40%.

Voting down an agreeable proposal out of spite would not be a good thing. If it's a good deal (whatever that may look like) for us, there would be no logical reason to turn it down. As angry as people are with the company, it doesn't have to come down to a zero-sum game. Both sides can win; personally, I would be fine with that. Remember when everyone thought the company was cutting off its own nose to spite its face? Wouldn't that be exactly what we would be doing to ourselves?

The first time around, Parker came to us excepting a swift victory and didn't have a backup plan. That's why it took so long for even a portion of the airplanes to go elsewhere. However, it would be a mistake from him to approach this negotiating round without another plan if talks fail.

It's good to see them willing to talk. I've even heard that Glass has toned down his rhetoric a bit. However, there probably is a plan B this time. I don't believe they have the desire or the means to shut us down, but if there is no deal and the planes go elsewhere, it will be a miserable time here for the foreseeable future.

The DFW FO rep sent out an email stating he wouldn't accept anything but for the aircraft to be put on our current contract or better. They're clearly not going to do that, so it sounds to me like these talks may not amount to much

I am not optimistic that these talks will yield anything at all either. We have a pilot group that has directed their MEC to not accept any concessions. At the same time, we have a management hired gun who will not accept anything BUT concessions. I see the talks most likely breaking down and one or both sides walking away.

And I am strangely fine with that.

So WHO would "plan B" be?

If AAG looses a 2500 member pilot group, who's gonna replace 'em ,...... especially in this environment???

More appropriately,.....who's gonna replace 'em in 2016 and beyond when the next round of 175s start rolling in!?!?!

To my knowledge, the flight schools ain't crankin' out pilots like they were in 1998. So Bedford can't do it. Ornstein can't do it. Atkin can't do it. PSA, PDT won't be able to do it. Whiskey is the only group who might have a shot at it, but their costs are already too high.

It's a serious question. Who is "plan B"?

Envoy pilots are holding a pretty nice handful of cards. You guys would do well to remind each other of that, from time to time.

I'm not optimistic either. I think these next rounds of talk are purely intended to see how "softened" the envoy pilot group has become since they gave away the first 20 to Compass. Glass, et al have time of their side right now. They're not going to come at you with their REAL "last, best, final" offer. The envoy pilots may have to tell Dougie to go pound sand a couple more times before a deal is finally struck. But Dougie really has no other viable, long-term, profitable options, given the size of his plans.

It's gonna be painful. Make the gain worth the pain.

Something tells me their plan "B" is Piedmont. It seems our (PDT's) negotiating committee has been close to a deal for about a month now but a couple of major issues are stopping a deal from being closed, those 2 main issues being increased health care costs and AAG's unwillingness to commit in writing to a specific number of new aircraft deliveries.

I think AAG is waiting out Envoy. If you guys end up rejecting a deal they will complete our deal at PDT by commiting to aircraft. Question is what's the rest of the PDT deal and is it awful enough for our group to vote no on, sending AAG back to the drawing board.

Pdt and eny will merge and we'll toss those dbag psa pukes out.

Your MEC tells our MEC it is. Talk to your MEC. That is current industry average for regional new hires according to ALPA national as well.