copycopy

RJ PILOT posted recently that he just needs envoy to last 3 more years so he can retire, so I wouldn't buy too much into his "we need to get an agreement done now" agenda. I voted no under the presumption that things would get worse before they improved. I had no misconception about this. Those that say that there is no shortage, or impending shortage, because it hasn't become overwhelmingly evident within 4 months of our no vote are idiots. This shortage isn't just about the classes today, next month or 6 months from now; the shortage coming is due once the majors are required to hire upwards of 2000-3000 pilots per year, starting in about two years. Why the hell would we agree to guaranteed concessions for a 10 year contract in exchange for flow with that type of movement coming up? It's asinine! Once that hiring spree starts, regionals WILL have trouble finding enough pilots. Anybody that voted no expecting immediate industry wide changes was a fool, but I think (and I could be wrong) that most of us realized that the no vote was about a long term industry trend that needs to change.

I am not surprised that PSA and MESA are filling classes. They are the easiest to get hired by (allegedly), and they have shiny new jets. There is, however, only going to be so much time before the regionals as a whole start to have serious staffing issues. I just don't see how deteriorating pay and QOL beyond an already concessionary contract is going to solve that problem.

Bzzt

Do you really think the pilots have any say at all in whether or not the regionals exist? If you do I think you're vastly overestimating your role in this machine. If contracts truly mattered to regional pilots not a single person would go to Mesa, but they're filling classes. As long as the mainline carrot exists there will be no shortage of pilots trading short term pain for PIC time and the shot at a major.

As to whether or not I believe the no voters thought there would be pain, I don't. I believe the no voters got caught up in the union propaganda of a pilot shortage. The reason I believe this is because a lot of the most vocal no voters are the ones now desperate for an "announcement". The pilot group made a calculated gamble given the information we had at the time. We lost the gamble, it's time to pay the debt.

copycopy

The pilot shortage is DEVELOPING. It doesn't happen overnight.

Bzzt

Less frequency, larger aircraft, "shortage" solved. Betting against very intelligent business people because your union is selling you the same story that's been perpetuated since the mid 80s is a foolish move.

Edit: Forgot to add that by the time the shortage "develops" if it ever does, we at Envoy will still be stagnant and those of us who are FOs will have weaker resumes than those pilots who went to PSA, Mesa, Compass, etc. Any way you slice it, we gambled and lost.

Waitingformins

Your right, that's why you have to vote no when approached under a contract on general principle. They forecast their doom and gloom runaway the new hires stagnate the upgrades and at the end of the day your under the same contract you were before. If they would have never opened their mouth the sun would have come back out form BK and business as usual would appear all positive with record profits. Now everybody's all strung out that a deal needs to happen, it doesn't. I am glad I learned this lesson young, If ever approached under a contract your either giving me a freebie or were not talking.

Thank you copy copy, with sincerity

buddies8

no deal is needed by the pilots at envoy. we have a bk contract good for 6.5 years more.

embraer

That contract is crap and you know it. It doesn't offer the company any protections against 15+ year Captains and it CERTAINLY doesn't offer any protections or guarantees to the pilot group.

It is the last vestiges of the Tony regime. That alone is all we need to know about our current contract. It's worthless from multiple angles and needs to die.

While we are at it we need better Trip Trading language in our new contract. Redder than Red and unable to trade down is utter nonsense.

Bzzt

I'm glad someone said it, that BK contract is absolute garbage and we shouldn't be falling on our collective sword to protect it.

m78fl370

Agreed. The same guys who were so against the BK contract are the ones now preaching to "come back to us in another 7 years, we've got a contract"

Waitingformins

Maye so, but if the company really wanted to negotiate in good faith, they would announce 824 called up by middle of next year, announce a predictable flow rate for protected pilots, sprinkle in news of the 175, and hold a vote after they flow the top 20% of the pay scale.

Instead, bring in the knuckledraggers, beat you up drag you out the back of the bar and kick you in the teeth to soften you up for future negotiations, all right after telling a judge this is a good faith agreement and whats needed to exit BK with 10 billion thats a B.