16 years later, go back and sniff some more glue.

And we are going to staff those airplanes with former Envoy pilots. A lot of them have been showing up in our new hire classes. I heard a lot are showing up to PSA as well...
Those who have mortgages to pay with families at home are going to vote yes. Why would a 4 or 5 year FO at envoy give up 48k a year to come to Mesa at 24k a year with a slap to the face benefits package?
They will if they have to, but voting yes means a higher QOL to them.

You don't make any sense.

Good Luck.

because the damage at eagle/envoy has been done in the last 4-5 years with these losers voting yes in contract changes. so excuse me if I don't give a rats ***. they deserve the 24k since they are stupid and full of fear.

If anyone is applying send me a pm

It took a little more than the FOs for the concession Eagle took during bankruptcy. Especially when the probational pilots couldn't even vote. The MEC was pushing for the concession and it took 80% of the lemmings including senior captains to make that pass. If you're with 4 other eagle pilots and you voted no yourself, then the other 4 in the room with you voted yes.

Why is it worse? Better "enhanced flow", FOs are grandfathered into their current payscale until you can upgrade in your base. The per diem will go up gradually, not 10 yr frozen like the original. Flow for NH. We got one more year without health insurance increase.

Why is different? Because we don't have a minimum 170 fleet? Remember that they said they would park airplanes to keep people
Flowing anyway.

It's worse on a number of levels. First of all the March agreement guaranteed a minimum fleet of 170 aircraft. This TA does not. Also the "enhanced flow" in the March agreement was 360 a year minimum with a true up provision, the current agreement is for 220 with no true up. PBS was tied to the delivery of the first option in the March agreement, now it's tied to the delivery of the last order. This created a financial incentive to place the options here, the incentive no longer exists. This is a brief summary, but there is more.

I just responded to the remarks that were made. though you are correct about including the senior pilots, but the scope change was only done with half the pilots voting and 70% of them voted for the change. that is what started the ball rolling down hill and the tony mec regime.

Have you fully read the TA?

That is true.

TA says:
The provisions of Letter 12-05 (“The 824 Agreement”) shall remain in full force and effect and will be enhanced by the language below:

Upon delivery of the first EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D and assuming 824 Envoy pilots have not flowed through to AA at that time, 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 30 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.


Letter 12-05, paragraph 1d contains the true up.

TA Says:
The provisions of Letter 13-04 (“Preferential Bidding System”) will be deemed suspended until delivery of the 41st EMB-175 as set forth in Appendix D. The suspension of Letter 13-04 will end on the date that the 41st EMB-175 is delivered and within 30 days after such delivery the PBS Working Group will re-commence the process of negotiating and finalizing a PBS LOA pursuant to the requirements of Letter 13-04. It is the parties' intent to complete PBS implementation as outlined in Letter 13-04 no later than 120 days after delivery of the 41st EMB-175.

The 41st EMB-175 is the 1st option.

so basically envoy is guaranteed 41 aircrfat since aag wants PBS.

Whatever happened to the guaranteed aircraft from the bankruptcy CBA?

the then mec tony regime gave it away for a slideable (shrinking) furlough protection. i guess they thought a fleet guarantee was not better than a shrinking percentage furlough protection. what can you say, they were running a union busting consulting firm while alpa members and leaders. way to go alpa.

it sounds like the PDT 175s are NOT from the Dec 2013 AAG Embraer agreement

Question3. PDT's contract (Appendix D Paragraph 2.b. I believe) talks about options. It says that if they exercise 20 additional E-175 options that those options "will also be placed at Piedmont to be flown by Piedmont pilots..." Can we confirm that these options are not the same options referenced in our TA, and that they are in fact from a different aircraft order all together?

Answer: We have the right to the 90 options from the ordered placed on Dec 13', the PDT agreement doesn’t specify what order those A/C would come from.

Question5. I have a question on some logistics on new aircraft deliveries. AMR has 60 firm and 90 options for E-175 with 20 going to Compass. If this TA is passed, we are supposed to get the remaining 40 and the rest of the options. However, looking at the recent PDT TA, they also have 20 E-175s and 20 options. My question is where are their airplanes coming from if we are supposed to get everything that AA has on the books. The scope will not even allow for all the options to be converted at this time. Is PDT getting E-175s after we get 130 of them? How does this work out?

Answer: The PDT agreement doesn’t specify an A/C order, it states that 20 E175 will be placed there if certain conditions are met and that the company will place the first 20 options-- of an order that is not specified. One can assume that while they were negotiating over the E175 the PDT pilots had the current orders in mind, but that is not what they secured. This is why AAG made the language change on our agreement.

The delivery dates and slots were specified during their negotiations (I've seen the notes and it was confirmed to me and others at pdt). Uphill battle in court? Sure. But clearly both aag and pdt were on the exact same page during negotiations. Point is this, it doesn't matter who gets the planes initially or who they were promised to, aag will put them where convenient then deal with the fall out later. Apparently ENY can't even take delivery of all these airplanes due to the numbers being scoped out. Can someone at eny confirm that?

As of right now cause of AA scope, neither Envoy can exercise ALL 90 options, or PSA all their 40 options or republic with their 47 options

Once envy pilots stop the race to the bottom by voting NO tomm, AAG will announce those E175's to Compass.

Stay Stong eny Pilots. Do what's best for the industry.

Good Luck.

Republic is experiencing a pilot shortage as evidenced by their inability to staff United flying so the problem will just naturally work itself out. PSA, TSA, Mesa, and a few others are having record class sizes every two weeks so that's where airplanes from a variety of mainline partners will wind up.

Can't wait til this vote is over so that you will give it a rest

He will never give it a rest.

Didn't the vote close today, when do you guys get the results?

We've been doing what's best for the industry, while the rest of the "industry" has been doing what's best for them. This time, we need to do what's best for "us". Flame away.

Closes tomorrow (23rd).

Don't bet on it. He still works there and more surprises are sure to come, so he'll remain fully engaged. BTW, his claim of supporting a rejection is all just more B.S. He's full throttle for ratification because as always, "it's good for him".

No flames from him. He's a solid yes, not because it's good for Envoy pilots, but because it's good for him. If it requires throwing you under a bus in the future to grease his ride, expect to get tossed.

By far the best thing ever posted to this thread. I tip my hat to you RJ

TA reads in part
"It is the parties’ intent to complete PBS implementation as outlined in Letter 13-04 no later than 120 days after delivery of the 41st EMB-175."

Please see LOA 13-04
"Ratification of a PBS LOA, in accordance with ALPA administrative policies, will be required prior to EGL implementing any PBS for the purposes of constructing and awarding pilot monthly schedules."

So eaglefly frosts his tips, plays laser tag/paintball, and trolls every single Envoy thread in his free time?? Gentleman, lock up your ladies. Eaglefly sounds like a serious stud muffin.

Not trying to flame, and I hope the best for Envoy pilots, but if this TA doesn't pass, why does everyone think the 175s will go to Compass?... What puts compass in a better position than say RAH? The fact that compass can staff?

Yeah that about covers it

The fact that the contract that placed the first 20 there included the option for AAG to place more there without having to renegotiate anything. That option period window is not indefinite.

What time does your voting window close?

Keep the faith eny pilots. Hold the line! No one can staff those Ejets!!


Good Luck.

We are hungry aren't we? 60-40 Fail.


Good Luck.

Hey RJ pilot............good luck !!! ;)

Is there any doubt that Parker and company will let the 41st airplane arrive and then hold the other 89 out for more concessions or for ratification of the PBS agreement?

The well of new pilots has to run dry soon. Will this new contract attract new pilots to Envoy? I highly doubt it. Why go there to stagnate in the right seat when upgrade times at other regionals are much sooner? Contracts don't attract pilots. Upgrade times and type of equipment does. If the TA is ratified then the 175s will attract a few but I highly doubt that many new hires will get into the 175 out of class. The senior guys will snap them up leaving the tired 145s to the new guys. At some point Envoy will be an all 175 fleet then problem solved. But will it be in time? Will they be able to attract enough replacement pilots to keep the operation running? Time will tell.

A tired old fleet of just 145s certainly isn't attracting new hires.

"...a turbo-jet FO may not bid to different turbo-jet equipment."

12:00 east time.

LOL'd Funny thing was that everyone laughed at him behind his back.

Specially FA's.

Good Luck.

New TA
 

Is there a copy of the new TA out there somewhere?

I was under the impression that that didn't apply to new equipment coming onto property?