I hate to ask but... PSA, Compass or Mesa?

Out of curiosity, how many pilots does Envoy have on their list now? We at L-XJT are down to 2694.

Guys you realize the CO wants people to resign, right? It's managements plan, you're only helping them out. If they furlough it costs them money in increased unemployment taxes. They are parting Eagle one plane by plane. Not only that but they are placing the aircraft with their other operators, effectively erasing away longevity pay, vacation, and sick time.

Great, great plan. Probably got management millions more in bonuses for thinking that one up.

Follow the money.

I gotta say, if that's the plan then they have executed it perfectly because this place has got so bad and the bad news never ceases to exist that nearly everyone is running for the exits.

And expect the bad news to keep on coming. That's not being pessimistic, that's a fact.

Listen to the ORD town hall meeting posted not too long ago; Parker basically said the same. An Eagle guy directly asked him "what's our future" and he basically said "there isn't one" without taking the new contract deal.

I hate to say it but the company should put a proposal on the table massively slashing the top senior pay while increasing the bottom end pay. It would kill two birds with one stone:

1) Force the senior guys to GTFO because they'd be taking a huge pay cut
2) Guarantee a majority yes vote, all the F/Os and most of the junior CA's.

See, I should be management :).

That being said, taking a look at your rates, they're actually really not that good. I'm not sure what AAG's hard on is for cutting pay even more, you're actually well below companies like SkyWest and Air Wisconsin. You have a Comair problem, way too top heavy. Only way to fix that problem is the same way Delta fixed their issue with Comair...

Our pay rates aren't really "well below" or at all below Skywest, don't know how you came up with that. But you are correct in that they aren't very good and should be significantly better. And envoy's costs are higher because of the longevity of our guys in ADDITION to completely incompetent management for a decade. They could have fixed the longevity problem by offering better flow incentives or fixing year one pay at AA, or even just by growing the airline into proportion. A good number of these guys will be gone in 5-10 years anyway, and judging by the fact that they offered to grandfather their rates in with a new contract I'd say that's not the big issue.
So why are they playing the game? Ignore everything Parker or Kirby say at a town hall meeting, it's just a show they put on. They're not trying to fix envoy's longevity problem, they're trying to lock in this entire broken system for another decade at a time when it's future was less certain, while also capping pay at year 12 which fixes the only issue they've ever had with it. So now they get bigger planes, flown for regional wages, with no raises for a decade of inflation, and no longevity issue. Once that's locked in, all they have to is chip away at scope over a decade, and pretty soon the pilot career equals a regional career. And PSA and PDT volunteered to help them.

QUOTE=Name User;1759653]Listen to the ORD town hall meeting posted not too long ago; Parker basically said the same. An Eagle guy directly asked him "what's our future" and he basically said "there isn't one" without taking the new contract deal.

I hate to say it but the company should put a proposal on the table massively slashing the top senior pay while increasing the bottom end pay. It would kill two birds with one stone:

1) Force the senior guys to GTFO because they'd be taking a huge pay cut
2) Guarantee a majority yes vote, all the F/Os and most of the junior CA's.

See, I should be management :).

That being said, taking a look at your rates, they're actually really not that good. I'm not sure what AAG's hard on is for cutting pay even more, you're actually well below companies like SkyWest and Air Wisconsin. You have a Comair problem, way too top heavy. Only way to fix that problem is the same way Delta fixed their issue with Comair...[/QUOTE]

Wrong. The way to fix it would have been to not make us file the last 10 years of grievances and arbitrations dealing with Letter 3 and the flow through. The way to fix it would have been to listen to the multimillion dollar Bain study the company paid for and increase the flow and offer financial incentives to flow. The way to fix it is to fill AA new hire classes with Eagle-voy pilots, or stop restricting the flow down to 20 a month instead of 30 (which is yet another pending grievance.) It is entirely within the ability of management to "fix" this "problem" without destroying our airline, lives, and already meager compensation, but that's what they choose to do, and should not be trusted one iota.

Not a vary smart plan if it is. The risk is what if attrition exceeds the rate at which they can replace the flying. If it does, they have to relinquish market share to competitors that is very difficult to regain.

Isn't there a no furlough clause at Envoy ?

Most of the pilots leaving in uncontrolled fashion (to outside carriers) aren't outside the proposed 12/4 caps, so little to be gained there. No, I think Envoy is essentially become a rudderless ship loaded with pilots looking for a life raft. The majority who stick it out are all senior topped out 18-year lifers like RJ pilot and then what have they got left ?

A carrier that will HAVE to be subject to consolidation to reset the remaining lifers compensation (if they want to stay). Right now, they've just decided to burn the furniture to heat the house until it's time to torch it for the insurance (asset acquisition with an offer of employment, a'la TWA).

Envoy only had ten flow awards this month.

How many left for other carriers or outside the industry ?

I'll bet it was at least double that. The good news is it will take several years for Envoy to fold and well before that (by summer), Parker won't be able to replace lost Envoy markets with others and will have a real problem.

That's when things get REAL interesting. I'd expect harsher threats as they get more and more desperate and their backs are pressed against the wall harder and harder.