Skyvector

As has been mentioned before:

In 18 months Envoy will be at the optimum size AA wants. At THAT point it will be 5 years from new hire to flowing up to American Airlines. Numbers based on our flow through and pilot size.

For those who always love to bash the flow, you have to turn the other cheek. AA spent the better part of 15 years not hiring ANYBODY. Eagle/Envoy has only had a flow agreement for a relatively short time. And on that short time AA only recently started hiring and thus allowing flows.

You can take a look at the combined AA/Us Airways retirement numbers for yourself and you will see that hiring will not stop anytime soon at all. That means that pilots from Envoy will continue to flow each month..in November the flow rate goes up to 30/month. Pilots who come to Envoy ahead of the wave will be even better positioned. Everybody is flowing including many of the doomsdayers who in the past claimed the flow was fake. Now they are flying the line at AA in a 767 or Md-80.

Remember also an important part of
Our contract: you don't need to be Captain to flow to AA. An Envoy FO can flow up without ever having upgraded first.

And no, the flow can NOT just disappear for new hires. It is in the contract and any violations come with BIG gains through arbitration. It's how we got our original flow in the first place.

spikemath

When is the wave predicted to begin?

JT8D

Not directly, but this company had long seen compliance with labor contracts as optional in nature, and will follow a CBA only when convenient for them.

For example, our reserve section is still not Part 117 compliant. Instead of working constructively with the union to find a solution, they virtually overhauled our reserve system to the detriment of pilot QOL, merely to suit their needs.

Our union's response is to say "hey, stop it" which the company merely ignores. This behavior has been ongoing for years. The only reason why our current flow through is working according to plan is due to the fact that it was mandated by a judge. Once the 824 are over at AA, no further version of the flow is guaranteed by anything other than the company toilet paper... I mean the CBA.

PSA recruiters are already whining to doug parker that the flow through that we have now at Eagle isn't fair to them. That's exactly what TWA pilots said the last time around. They won.

Skyvector

If I had to bet money on it, I would say in 18 months when AA can advertise a 5 year new hire to AA flow. Anybody already here prior to that will be ahead of the game in multiple ways.

CFIatKFXE

Since the Envoy is shrinking to its "optimal" size, how long do you think the reserve is for 2015 new hires?

And while it shrinking, prospect applicants shouldn't take into account that the company would be either dissolved or flow not being guaranteed at that time?

spikemath

Envoy already employs upwards of 2000 pilots, any idea of how many current pilots will leave and how many total pilots they intend to employ after the new jets start arriving?

CFIatKFXE

PSA is actually my top choice but in the long run as envoys flow speeds up, it might be a better choice with career opportunities. I would choose AA in 5 years over almost no reserve and quick upgrade at PSA.
Only if i could rely on 5yr rumor....

Skyvector

He's trolling you. Don't take anything he says seriously. My advice? If your goal is to get to a major relatively quickly, don't go to PSA.

You will wait 20 years (literally) before an opportunity to interview with AA. And since PSA pilots can't be hired at AA outside that agreement, you have just eliminated one out of three majors..leaving your only options Delta and United. And now you are competing with the rest of the pack for the same jobs. Military pilots..Captains from JetBlue and Spirit, pilots from Atlas and Omni with 747 type ratings, etc...

Plus the thousands you will spend attending job fairs just for a 5 minute handshake with a recruiter, plus thousands more on interview prep companies...

That's the game most pilots have to play because they have no other choice. But an airline with an enhanced flow and shrinking pilot group like Envoy is good insurance.

Centra

One could say the same for you.

Because of statements like that. Show me where that's written down.

If someone is basing their decision solely based on flow as it is currently today, I'd go to PDT.

CFIatKFXE

That's exactly what I am thinking right now. I wanted to go to envoy before MEC confirmed but then ppl saying flow would take over 10yearz and envoy has long reserve (given the current trend I think it's ok to consider it without offending senior pilots who have been in reserve for years) made me reconsider. hence PSA.
UNTIL I read a resent article about PSA morale is down/AA internal meeting video saying that the flow will be reduced to 5 years soon (for me that'd be about 6.5yr flow I think) and PSA contract prevents their pilots to apply at AA
Now back to Envoy

Seems like while the company is becoming small to its "optimal" size. Some consider it as the company fm going down.

Do you know much about DFW and ny base? Reserve time. Which planes etc. I'll be commuting from KFLL.

Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.