CLT Guy

If you believe the information on this forum as fact, you are going to be really disappointed in any decisions that you make from that information. There is more false information on here than factual. Go and talk to guys that actually work for the company, not flight sim pilots that pretend to fly real airplanes.

There is no guarantee that any current regional airline will be in business in 5 years. In fact, several will likely fall in the next 10 years. The best airline today might be the worst one in 2 years. Base your decision on what is best for you now and for your future. Flow's are a gimmick that may continue, or may end in the near future, and that is true at all regionals, not just Envoy.

Skyvector

If flows are a gimmick then why are all you PSA sallys desperately trying to get one? Why is your recruiter getting up and begging the CEO of AA for an Envoy style flow? Because it's a gimmick? Get real.

See that's the problem with being a PSA cheerleader. Eventually you are backed into a corner and begin speaking out both sides of your mouth. I know it's tough to be at PSA and looking at 20 years before getting the privilege to interview (not flow) at AA. If anything, THAT is a gimmick. Meanwhile Envoy is sending 30 pilots a month to American Airlines with NO interview. Just flowing like a base transfer.

Now I'm sure you are a relatively smart guy. I'm also sure you have a calculator. If Envoy is at 1200 to 1500 pilots, at 30/month going to AA how long will it take to go from Envoy new hire to AA new hire? Keep in mind 30 is the minimum that Envoy has to send per month.

Gimmick? That is one hell of a nice gimmick...especially when you go from an E-175 to a 767 in 5 years or less. PSA isn't a bad place to be if your only goal for the next 20 years is to be a line holding Captain on an RJ flying between Charlotte and Knoxville. Sure, go to PSA and live that life to it's fullist.

CLT Guy

I am not in a corner. It is a gimmick. It will work for some people, but it is not a solution to the problem. Do you think that a flow makes all of the abuse that regional pilots have been getting for years makes it worth it?

It is a gimmick. A real solution would be a seniority number or everything larger than 50 seats at mainline.

CLT Guy

Oh, and once the 824 are gone, if Envoy says that they have staffing problems, the guaranteed "flow" that you are talking about will be gone overnight. If there are only 1200 pilots, there is no way that any airline could survive with more than 25% of their pilots leaving every year. There is no way that they could keep check airmen and senior captains. It is simply unsustainable. Break out that calculator and try that one. 360 pilots "flowing" each year, with a pilot group of 1200 would mean that from the day that you are hired, you will be at AA within 40 months.

CFIatKFXE

It's not a perfect world. Some things work for some and they don't for others. Can we not argue over what's better and which regional is better. As long as there's regional industry with greedy major CEOs this regional b.s. Ain't gonna end. Who accepted concessions what not. At the end it doesn't matter. Get the flight time and get out. That's what I'm going to do. We are all selfish in different ways based on what we believe to be "right" or favorable to them.

I just wanted some info from people who know more about different companies so I can make choice based on what's best for me.

Skyvector

Nice assumptions there. The problem for you is that I'm dealing in actual numbers and actual contractual information.

You are speculating/hoping that AA reverses their entire long-term plan for Envoy and dismantles everything they have been building just to make yourself feel better.

Sorry to tell you...this pain you are feeling will get worse before it gets better. Just wait until very soon when most of your Junior PSA pilots begin jumping ship over to Envoy. Don't think it will happen? Think you are immune? Think you are smarter than the managers of this multi-billion dollar company known as American Airlines?

Ok then. The next 18 months will be a nice learning lesson for you.

*Oh, and nothing in our contract-including our flow-can just "be gone overnight". See, that's the problem with contracts. They are binding. And if not, there is an arbitration process and the company has to make up for it. That is how the original Eagle got the original flow to AA before flow was ever a thing. You still have much to learn, little man. Good luck over at PSA.

CLT Guy

Actually, no. I hope that all of the Envoy pilots end up at mainline. Give them seniority numbers now and let them go. I don't wish bad things on other pilot groups. I just think that blindly trusting AAG is naive.

fisherman

About 1800 of our 2100 pilots are trying to get better jobs. No one knows how big the company plans for the fleet or pilot group to leave. They like to keep that information secret for leverage in negotiations.

boiler07

The plan for envoy is ~1500 total pilots and 1200 active. That comes from the big 6.

Currently there are less than 300 "lifers" on the list and that decreases to around 200 in the next few years.

FXE CFI: the NYC base is closing.

JT8D

You can strike NY off of the list of potential bases. It's slated to close by the end of the year. As far as aircraft types, the Embryo is a safe bet (even though they are being outsourced and parked too).