Envoy/Eagle to get 40 E-175's w/90 options
05-05-2015, 11:46 AM
#441
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Posts: 1,054
Originally Posted by boiler07
The plan for envoy is ~1500 total pilots and 1200 active. That comes from the big 6.
Currently there are less than 300 "lifers" on the list and that decreases to around 200 in the next few years.
FXE CFI: the NYC base is closing.
Currently there are less than 300 "lifers" on the list and that decreases to around 200 in the next few years.
FXE CFI: the NYC base is closing.
05-05-2015, 12:09 PM
#442
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Posts: 610
Originally Posted by CFIatKFXE
PSA is actually my top choice but in the long run as envoys flow speeds up, it might be a better choice with career opportunities. I would choose AA in 5 years over almost no reserve and quick upgrade at PSA.
Only if i could rely on 5yr rumor....
Only if i could rely on 5yr rumor....
It does seem ridiculous that pretty soon the lifers at Eagle will be flying the same type aircraft as AA and for the same company and have to take a pay cut to switch unions.
05-05-2015, 12:15 PM
#443
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Originally Posted by Waitingformins
Me to dude, and I am already at PSA. I wanted to go to Eagle way before this giant sh!t show. 1500 pilots, 1200 revolving jobs and 360 a year flow means 3 years and 4 months Indoc to Indoc. Not too bad, hardly seems believable. I would however think that if your were to ask anybody that has been in this business more than 10 years they would say don't plan on it. I do think that since AA now operates the 190 and Eagle will operate the 170's that there may be some sort of new hybrid connection between the two companies something were not seeing right now.
It does seem ridiculous that pretty soon the lifers at Eagle will be flying the same type aircraft as AA and for the same company and have to take a pay cut to switch unions.
It does seem ridiculous that pretty soon the lifers at Eagle will be flying the same type aircraft as AA and for the same company and have to take a pay cut to switch unions.
That is exactly what I don't understand. If there is a flow contract which is being exercised right now, is there a time limit? Why don't count on it if on contract and the flow is regardless how little pilots envoy can attract right now, going to continue? Or the flow contract is till this nov and the new 30/mo starting this nov is not in the contract? Or am I missing something?
05-05-2015, 12:19 PM
#444
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Originally Posted by CFIatKFXE
That is exactly what I don't understand. If there is a flow contract which is being exercised right now, is there a time limit? Why don't count on it if on contract and the flow is regardless how little pilots envoy can attract right now, going to continue? Or the flow contract is till this nov and the new 30/mo starting this nov is not in the contract? Or am I missing something?
05-05-2015, 12:22 PM
#445
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Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
30 a month starts when the first 175 shows up(November). That extends through the "824" pilot group. Then, the next group are the "protected pilots", or everyone above the 824 and on property at contract DOS. They go at 35% of classes until the last 175 shows up, and then it goes to 50%. Finally, any new hire, hired Jan 2015 or later, goes at 25%. Basically, envoys flow gets smaller and smaller over time. That leaves room for places like PSA to get bigger, in time(not now!)
I'm having hard time understanding how those %s actually work. But sounds like it will not be 30/month for the next 5 years continuously. It will get smaller and smaller so new hires now will prolly looking at 7-10yr flow?
05-05-2015, 12:25 PM
#446
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Originally Posted by CFIatKFXE
I'm having hard time understanding how those %s actually work. But sounds like it will not be 30/month for the next 5 years continuously. It will get smaller and smaller so new hires now will prolly looking at 7-10yr flow?
It will drop to 14 year guys by this summer, but those guys waited 10 years to upgrade to Captain here at envoy air, inc, formerly known as American Eagle, formerly known as Command, Simmons, Executive, and Wings West.
05-05-2015, 12:27 PM
#447
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Originally Posted by CFIatKFXE
That is exactly what I don't understand. If there is a flow contract which is being exercised right now, is there a time limit? Why don't count on it if on contract and the flow is regardless how little pilots envoy can attract right now, going to continue? Or the flow contract is till this nov and the new 30/mo starting this nov is not in the contract? Or am I missing something?
05-05-2015, 12:28 PM
#448
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Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
Exactly. If no economical bumps, airline mergers(Delta and Alaska? AA and jetBlue?), 9-11s, etc. When, in the last 4-5 decades, has none of these things happened? Flows are for suckers. Like I said, facts are facts, and the guys going over today have been waiting 16 years for a "3 year flow".
That makes sense
So to sunup to be competitive outside of flow, maybe go for a regional with a quick upgrade then go to atlas or some sort until eligible to apply as a street hire at AA or other legacy
05-05-2015, 12:32 PM
#449
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Originally Posted by Waitingformins
I am not a good source but, I think AMR tried to get rid of all the flow in BK with the rest of the contract. A judge somewhere slammed a hammer down and said bull$hit you promised Eagles a flow. It happened to be 824 people that were still there when the original deal was cut. So everybody was thrilled the next 824 guys AA hired would be from Eagle, captain jobs would turnover and life would be good. Some where BuzzKillington came out and read the fine print that they could be held which of course happened. The rest of the "flow" is on the contract but since the first round took a court order its assumed that AA will renege somehow.
Recently, the company and the union could not come to an agreement on reserve rules, so the company ceased "ALL" negotiations and has unilaterally installed new reserve rules in complete violation of anything our contract stands for. Do you really think they won't violate the flow language too? These are evil people and working for them SUCKS.
05-05-2015, 01:30 PM
#450
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Originally Posted by CFIatKFXE
Why don't count on it if on contract and the flow is regardless how little pilots envoy can attract right now, going to continue?
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